AG42b Accuracy?
- Thread starter suprathepeg
- Start date
The guy at Ammomart used to send out a catalog with surplus primed Danish empties and FMJRN bullets in it, real cheap. He showed a photo in his catalog if a 100-yard 10-round that was under a cent.
If you feed them what they want, they are superb. Only problem is that they are absolute murder on brass.
If handloading for one, stay with a nice quick powder. Slow powders will give you MEGA port-pressure problems with this rifle if you are not careful. PM me if you want an e-copy of an article I have done in this regard.
Good luck!
If you feed them what they want, they are superb. Only problem is that they are absolute murder on brass.
If handloading for one, stay with a nice quick powder. Slow powders will give you MEGA port-pressure problems with this rifle if you are not careful. PM me if you want an e-copy of an article I have done in this regard.
Good luck!
These rifles are scary accurate, even with a rather crappy bore like mine. At 100 meters, (I can barley focus at that range) my AG42b shot a 5 shot group at about 1 3/4" (yes, my best group) I was very surprised, the other groups were not far behind too.
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
The only problem with them is that you have to pack a lunch to pick up the fired cases
My Ljungmann will shoot the following;
Igman 139gr
Best: Clover leaf. Seriously. One in the center, and one in each corner.
Worst: 2" (bad grouping occurs when owner fires)
Handloads
Best: One very ragged hole.
Worst: 4" (bad grouping occurs between a combination of a crappy shooter, and crappy handloads)
I've only ever seen one Ljungmann that will not fire vastly better than the owner is capable of, and that one Ljungmann will still group well below serive requirements (3").
Oh, and... <insert required statement of length of trip to retrieve brass when discussing the Ljungmann here>
Igman 139gr
Best: Clover leaf. Seriously. One in the center, and one in each corner.
Worst: 2" (bad grouping occurs when owner fires)
Handloads
Best: One very ragged hole.
Worst: 4" (bad grouping occurs between a combination of a crappy shooter, and crappy handloads)
I've only ever seen one Ljungmann that will not fire vastly better than the owner is capable of, and that one Ljungmann will still group well below serive requirements (3").
Oh, and... <insert required statement of length of trip to retrieve brass when discussing the Ljungmann here>
The best grouping that I ever got out of my Ljungmann was with 42.5 grains of Win 760, 140grain Sierra Spitzer Boattails, CCI primers and Igman brass.
Though I've also had decent success with IMR 4350 as well using a similar load.
Though I've also had decent success with IMR 4350 as well using a similar load.
when handloading for this rifle, you want to stick with a quick powder due to port pressure problems with many of the rifles.
if the rifle functions okay with the fast powder (3031, 4895 or equivalent), only THEN should you even think about going to a slower powder. When you finish firing your first couple of rounds, pick up and inspect your brass..... any evidence of battering of the case mouths or bodies, pulled or bent rims, or an excessive distance to go to pick up the brass, is evidence that you have a problem at the gas port.
ANY semi-auto rifle should throw the brass only a short distance: youwill get the best accuracy when it drops the brass on the bench beside the rifle. If your rifle wings the stuff 40 yards (as I have seen these rifles do)...... you gotta problem, buddy!
if the rifle functions okay with the fast powder (3031, 4895 or equivalent), only THEN should you even think about going to a slower powder. When you finish firing your first couple of rounds, pick up and inspect your brass..... any evidence of battering of the case mouths or bodies, pulled or bent rims, or an excessive distance to go to pick up the brass, is evidence that you have a problem at the gas port.
ANY semi-auto rifle should throw the brass only a short distance: youwill get the best accuracy when it drops the brass on the bench beside the rifle. If your rifle wings the stuff 40 yards (as I have seen these rifles do)...... you gotta problem, buddy!
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
I don't know about that statement of excessive pressure causing the brass to fly further. I used milsurp ammo and it flung the cases a good distance away.
If it does that with the ammo originaly made for it, thats not the problem,it's simply the nature of the beast.
If it does that with the ammo originaly made for it, thats not the problem,it's simply the nature of the beast.
True enough, they all do wing the brass a good ways, but that is not necessary for best accuracy. The rifles were set up as COMBAT rifles and we are using them for TARGET rifles: there IS room for improvement.
And no semi-auto should throw the brass 40 or 50 yards, as I have seen these rifles do. The problem is that too much gas is getting to the "piston" on the front of the bolt carrier. Slow powers compound this problem with a longer "dwell" at higher pressure at the gas port. We can and should improve these rifles, if only for our own safety....... not to mention better targets.
And no semi-auto should throw the brass 40 or 50 yards, as I have seen these rifles do. The problem is that too much gas is getting to the "piston" on the front of the bolt carrier. Slow powers compound this problem with a longer "dwell" at higher pressure at the gas port. We can and should improve these rifles, if only for our own safety....... not to mention better targets.
Smellie... That's the way the rifles are designed... it has nothing to do with the gasses, it has nothing to do with the loads, and it has nothing to do with the powder.
The rifles are a military design, and they're designed with function in mind. They are designed to eject the brass with force to make sure that the brass is ejected.
As for the idea that winging the brass out like that will have an effect on accuracy, I'd have to ask you to prove that one. Especially since I know of four Ljungmann's, my own included, that will put five rounds touching each other at 100 on a very consistant basis.
And I'm not even going to bother touching the comment about 'safety'.
Aside from that, if you honestly think the Ljungmann is the only rifle that ejects the brass out with that amount of force, you should check up on some of the other military designed rifles. There are some that exist that are worse than the Ljungmann.
The rifles are a military design, and they're designed with function in mind. They are designed to eject the brass with force to make sure that the brass is ejected.
As for the idea that winging the brass out like that will have an effect on accuracy, I'd have to ask you to prove that one. Especially since I know of four Ljungmann's, my own included, that will put five rounds touching each other at 100 on a very consistant basis.
And I'm not even going to bother touching the comment about 'safety'.
Aside from that, if you honestly think the Ljungmann is the only rifle that ejects the brass out with that amount of force, you should check up on some of the other military designed rifles. There are some that exist that are worse than the Ljungmann.
These rifles are very ammunition sensitive compared with some other designs. Because the gas system is not adjustable, and doesn't really compensate for ammunition variations, reliable operation depends on the ammunition being correct.
I have seen a number of these rifles that would not work properly with the Swedish brown box ammunition, unless the cartridges were lubricated. If the pressure curve is off, the breech will try to open while the case is still locked to the chamber walls by residual pressure. The extractor will rip through the rim. The spare parts kit had extra extractor sets for a reason. Open the breech to clear the jam, and the case will drop out. I have seen cases with rims bent and with deep dents from the ejector, because the bolt was opening so violently. Case heads were distorted to the point that the rims wouldn't fit a shellholder. The design lacks positive primary extraction.
A nicely balanced handload will result in the action cycling reliably, with the cases being deposited relatively close to the rifle. Not necessary to use a metal detector to sweep for the cases.
Issue of these rifles within the Swedish army was relatively limited. The Mausers were retained longer before being sold off.
I have seen a number of these rifles that would not work properly with the Swedish brown box ammunition, unless the cartridges were lubricated. If the pressure curve is off, the breech will try to open while the case is still locked to the chamber walls by residual pressure. The extractor will rip through the rim. The spare parts kit had extra extractor sets for a reason. Open the breech to clear the jam, and the case will drop out. I have seen cases with rims bent and with deep dents from the ejector, because the bolt was opening so violently. Case heads were distorted to the point that the rims wouldn't fit a shellholder. The design lacks positive primary extraction.
A nicely balanced handload will result in the action cycling reliably, with the cases being deposited relatively close to the rifle. Not necessary to use a metal detector to sweep for the cases.
Issue of these rifles within the Swedish army was relatively limited. The Mausers were retained longer before being sold off.
Remember, guys, there's a big difference between CHAMBER pressure and PORT pressure. Gas-operated rifles depend on a combination of gas pressure at the port, and the length of time that gas pressure is present at the port, for their functioning.
Don't take my word for it: talk to anybody who has used an FN-FAL. Set the gas at 1 and spend an hour looking for the brass and then patch up your nice big group. Set the rifle gas bleed at 5, pick up your brass from beside you and patch up your nice LITTLE group. In both cases the rifle ejects, by the way, just a lot less violently with the gas bleed set properly.
AG42 HAS NO gas bleed, depends on the ammunition to give the correct port pressure for proper functioning. When the Egyptians adopted this rifle, they manufactured it with a gas adjustment because the rifle NEEDED one.
Don't take my word for it: talk to anybody who has used an FN-FAL. Set the gas at 1 and spend an hour looking for the brass and then patch up your nice big group. Set the rifle gas bleed at 5, pick up your brass from beside you and patch up your nice LITTLE group. In both cases the rifle ejects, by the way, just a lot less violently with the gas bleed set properly.
AG42 HAS NO gas bleed, depends on the ammunition to give the correct port pressure for proper functioning. When the Egyptians adopted this rifle, they manufactured it with a gas adjustment because the rifle NEEDED one.
