AI AXSR, B&T APR, Sako TRG M10 or Cadex Kraken?

teller

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Hey all!

I'm looking to get into shooting .338 Lapua because my 50 BMG is now a paperweight and I don't have the time/patience to load wildcats like 375 EnABELR. I considered 338 Norma Mag, but IMO it's too hard to find commercially in quantity to make it worth the investment. I've narrowed my choices to these 4 rifles (in no particular order):
  1. Accuracy Int'l AXSR
  2. Brugger & Thomet APR338
  3. Sako TRG M10
  4. Cadex MC Kraken
Reviews for these rifles are few and far between so I'm reaching out to the community to get feedback on them and which is the best "bang for my buck".

If you have experience with any of these rifles and can speak to your over all impressions of it, it would be most appreciated!

- Teller
 
My personal opinion having owned the following rifles:

Sako TRG 22 and 42 (not the M10)
Cadex Kraken
Desert Tech SRS a1/a2

If you are interested in bullpups I would recommend the SRS a2 as that's the rifle I keep going back to.

I have had that rifle in multiple calibers and you can get it from 223 to 33xc.

I liked the Kraken, but didn't like the barrel/calibre selection from Cadex (there are gunsmiths that can help though) and I felt like the bolt cycling on the Kraken was a bit rough.

The Sakos were great rifles but any accessories were alot of money.

I have shot some accuracy internationals and have always wanted one but never could afford it when needed. I have heard they are well worth the money but I'm not a fan of their keylock system.

I am assuming instead of the AXSR you would be looking for the AXMC.

Out of your list I would probably go accuracy international first then Kraken, but if you are interested in Bullpups Desert Tech is also a fine choice.

I would recommend also looking on the used market Krakens and accuracy internationals and desert techs show up periodically. I haven't really seen the M10 or APR show up but maybe haven't been looking nearly hard enough.
 
Not on your list, but definitely worthy of your consideration is the Barrett MRAD, distributed in Canada by Wolverine Supplies. This is the easiest and quickest switch-calibre system available, allowing you to shoot a broad variety of calibers, ranging from 6.5 CM to .338 Lapua and Norma Magnums. A calibre swap takes literally 2 minutes and requires the loosening of 2 screws retaining the Barrel Shank.

The MRAAD has been adopted by US Special Operations Command as their Advanced Sniper Rifle, after an exhaustive double round of testing against all designs with similar capabilities. Subsequent to the USSOCOM selection, the US Army adopted the MRAD as its primary sniper rifle, designated the M22. Most recently it has been picked up by the US Marine Corps. In all cases, the MRAD/M22 replaces all in-service bolt-action sniper systems, including the US Army and SOCOM M24, the USMC M40, and the M82 Barrett .50 cal semi-auto sniper rifles in service with all branches of the US Military. There is some pretty significant praise for the Barrett product from end-users in the field as well!

I just picked up this lightly used older model (no MLOC slots in the Handguard), set up for both 6.5 CM And .338 LM. A new rifle is $9K and a caliber conversion is $3.5K (CAD), so $11.5K CAD for a brand new 2-caliber setup. I paid $8K for my example, so clearly, there are some savings to be had if you can find what you want on the used market...


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Having owned and shot all of them:

AI AXSR all the way, I'm going that way too. Reason aftermarket support. Bolt feel is the best IMO. plus there are plenty of smiths to spin up a barrel for you. If you wanted to go 338 Norma, Insite could spin up a barrel for you no problem. although I'd go 300 norma AI, very impressive caliber.

Kraken is great but barrel changes are a hassle. and if you want a new barrel it can ONLY come from Cadex.

B and T has no support, I'm sure it's a great rifle but waiting for months with a paperweight sucks. also no barrel changes as far as I know.

Barrett MRAD is good but again only avail through wolverine and they dont carry much. plus Barrett is fickle with support, we just had a 2 year drought on parts and caliber changes. Also no smiths for aftermarket barrels in Canada. Bartok's example is the first gen, you need a modernization kit from Barrett if you're going to shoot any of the new caliber kits.

Sako is great, but again no support. most expensive of the bunch. $400 mags, yikes. Great shooter and I like them but I'll probably get a 22 A1 in 308 or 6.5 just to have one to enjoy.

Steyr M1 is great but has ejection issues and again very hard to get support.

Desert Tech is great if you like bullpup (you either do or dont.) they are VERY accurate, the bolt is clunky but you get over it. Barrels available in the aftermarket and SAC made some cool stuff for them.

long story short: In Canada you basically have two choices Desert tech or AI. Welcome to the Canadian gun market :(
 
...... Bartok's example is the first gen, you need a modernization kit from Barrett if you're going to shoot any of the new caliber kits......
Can you please elaborate regarding this Barrett Gen 1 to Gen 2 "Modernization Kit"? Barrett's online store doesn't sell anything resembling such a kit, aside from the Adjustable Buttplate Upgrade. I could not find any reference to such a kit perusing both the old and newer versions of the User's Manual. To the best of my knowledge (which is certainly NOT all-encompassing), the only "upgrades" to the Gen 2 MRAD were the aforementioned vertically-Adjustable Buttplate and the inclusion of Handguard MLOK Slots to replace screw-mounted Handguard Rails for accessories. I am curious what internal changes were made that require this "Modernization Kit", and what exactly does it entail? I have no need for additional caliber conversions, but may require a replacement for my 6.5 CM tube some day....
 
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Can you please elaborate regarding this Barrett Gen 1 to Gen 2 "Modernization Kit"? Barrett's online store doesn't sell anything resembling such a kit, aside from the Adjustable Buttplate Upgrade. I could not find any reference to such a kit perusing both the old and newer versions of the User's Manual. To the best of my knowledge (which is certainly NOT all-encompassing), the only "upgrades" to the Gen 2 MRAD were the aforementioned vertically-Adjustable Buttplate and the inclusion of Handguard MLOK Slots to replace screw-mounted Handguard Rails for accessories. I am curious what internal changes were made that require this "Modernization Kit", and what exactly does it entail? I have no need for additional caliber conversions, but may require a replacement for my 6.5 CM tube some day....
Sure!

https://store.barrett.net/p-3587-mrad-breech-conversion-kit-large-to-small.aspx

Basically they changed the breech size so if you're going to buy any new barrel or caliber kit you need to make sure you have the small breech version. There's some talk about it on snipers hide. I believe the bolt heads are slightly different too if I'm remembering correctly.

If you've shot both then chanced are they are made for your gun. But a new one, as well as if a smith spins one up for you, if they are running the new specs it'll be different. Not the end of the world though. only $475 USD
 
Sure!

https://store.barrett.net/p-3587-mrad-breech-conversion-kit-large-to-small.aspx

Basically they changed the breech size so if you're going to buy any new barrel or caliber kit you need to make sure you have the small breech version. There's some talk about it on snipers hide. I believe the bolt heads are slightly different too if I'm remembering correctly.

If you've shot both then chanced are they are made for your gun. But a new one, as well as if a smith spins one up for you, if they are running the new specs it'll be different. Not the end of the world though. only $475 USD
I already have that Large Breech to Small Breech Conversion Kit with my 6.5 CM Barrel. I have the Large Breech Kit for my .338 LM Barrel. In other words, each of my Barrels has a complete Bolt/Carrier Assembly and its own Polymer Inserts. The web-site says that this kit is required to change from small/short calibers to the major calibers such as .338 if you happen to own a Gen 1 rifle. Hence, my rifle already came with the Conversion Kit.

I am not convinced that the Conversion Kit is necessary to use newer Barrels in older Rifles. Rather, the kit is for use with older rifles (such as mine) when switching from "major" (eg. 338 LM) to "minor" (6.5 CM) calibers. That is all. I am not sure where you got the idea that the conversion kit allows the use of newer Barrels in older Rifles, but I think that you may be mistaken there. The older Gen 1 Rifles basically just require 2 sets of guts (one of which is the "Conversion Kit"), to cover off the entire spectrum of Barrett calibers.

Equipped with both sets of MRAD innards, I ought to be able to use any current Caliber Kit consisting of the applicable Bolt Head and Barrel in my Gen 1 rifle.
 
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Most of it's already been said, but I'll add my 2 Cents.

AI: I have an AXMC with 3 calibres (308, 300 WM and 338LM). As everyone has said already, extremely smooth bolt, easy calibre changes plus it's easy to get other barrels. 10 round AIAW mags for 308 and the mag cutout on the left side is nice. The negatives... It's expensive. Mine are all AI, including the AI Tactical muzzle brakes for each of the three barrels. You can buy new barrels along with another brand of muzzle brake. So you can bring the costs down if not going all AI parts. The one disadvantage to the AXMC is the plastic pistol grip. AI was slower than the rest to modify their chassis system. It fits me and I don't mind it. But you have the seem and it's a throw back from AI of older. If an AI collector, though the AXMC might be the one to get. Especially if you can get a good deal on one.

The AXSR. If buying new I would definitely get one. It fixes the pistol grip issue of being a plastic throwback and goes with an Ergo grip. The AI chassis system seemed to be gradually going toward a more Cadex like design. The AXSR fixes this one negative of the AXMC. However it's not all perfect. You lose the much loved AI AW style 3 position safety and the AXSR is the American product. The European one with the metric threads etc, is the MK3 not the AXSR. So no distinct AI tactical muzzle brake. With the AXSR it uses the American threads and therefore an excellent Insite Arms Heathen muzzle brake. Not a deal breaker for me and it's the most up to date version out there. Barrels are interchangeable with the AXMC but not the bolts. I doubt anyone would be disappointed with this rifle. The only real negative is price.

Another favourite of mine is the Desert Tech. I own two Desert Tech SRS A1 rifles and a SRS A2. There is also the M2 which is the newest long range version with a 30 moa top rail and Arca on the bottom. They are bullpups, mags are mediocre and not super smooth, although you don't notice when you're in position and cycling the rifle. They use Walther Lothar barrels, much like a lot of the AI rifles and you can get aftermarket barrels for them. The Calibre changes are fast and as good or better than the AI. If thinking PRS or other specific shooting sports, then it's likely not the rifle for you. But as a precision tactical rifle, its' very accurate and a high end contender. I'm a fan. Plus deals can often be found that make them one of the more affordable options. Especially since bolts/barrels are interchangeable among all the SRA A1, A2 and M2 rifles.

The SRS A1. This would be my choice for a less expensive long range setup. Top rail which I mount an over bore bipod on. Trigger is excellent and highly adjustable (not as nice as the the AI though). It's the older and heavier option, which doesn't really matter if you're shooting long rang 338LM. Plus they do include the monopod if you're using the glass for an extended period of time. Not a big deal to me, but it is an expensive option if you want it in the A2 (Which you don't).

The SRS A2. This is the only one of the bunch listed that I wouldn't have an issue shooting off hand. It's fairly light compared to the others, all of which are boat anchors. The handguard is Mlok and interchangeable for the shorter covert version. If thinking big bore shooting and longer barrels/range etc, then the M2 is the newest and the best option for that.

The Barrett MRAD. I looked at these, I really looked at these. The reason I didn't go this route were the different Gens, requiring a conversion piece if you have an older gen along with the lack of calibre conversion kits. Most of the MRAD rifles I saw for sale, came with one calibre. But looking around, I couldn't find kits to add to it. There's not much point in having a multi calibre rifle with only one Calibre. Also I like the looks of the Gen 2 with the Mlok rail. Reminded me of my LMT MRP rifles. However, there were reported incidents with a batch of mil contract mk22 which also included some of the rifles bought in the Civilian market with the handguard/upper receiver cracking. Knowing my luck, I'd end up with one. Considering I couldn't even find conversion kits, I had little to no faith in any support from Barrett. If you can find a good one with multiple calibres, then this rifle would likely make you happy and is a contender with all the others mentioned. Cool rifles, although looks a little too much like a bolt action AR10 to me. But.. had I found one that was perfect, I would have likely bought it.

The Cadex Kraken. I don't own one, yet. Deal pending. I do however have a Cadex Guardian and had a Cadex Tremor 50BMG along with a number of their Chassis. I am a fan. I like their chassis and the rifles are built well. Not as smooth as an AI, however they smooth out with use and when properly oiled. I consider these to be high end rifles and like the other options listed, they are build like tanks. The trigger, I like it but others will likely favour the AI or possible a trigger tech. I have no concerns with the trigger. It's decent, but the AI is easier. Calibre changes.. Mareshow has a good video out there showing it. Not as quick as the others mentioned. But there are advantages. Return to zero for once. I will note that I have never heard any AI AW or AI AE owners complaining about the calibre or barrel changes (yes you can change the barrels out on those with a special barrel wrench and barrel vise) and the Kraken looks to be better than that. The bar near the scope looks a bit disconcerting, however I haven't heard of any instances with issues. The barrels are Bartlein and specific to the rifle. As mentioned you would have to order from Cadex or buy a set.

Mags. Advantage or disadvantage? The Cadex Kraken uses AICS pattern mags. With my AE MKIII one of the negatives was that it didn't use the AW mag which is dual stack and sits lower. But is it really a negative? I have a lot of the AICS mags, including a number of 12 rounders. You can get these mags from a number of different sources and they are the most popular system out there. They are high quality, affordable and almost universal. While the others are proprietary, often hard to get and expensive. I actually consider this a potential advantage with the Kraken.

One of the biggest issues with the Cadex Kraken is frankly how poorly the retailers sell/market them. Only one company seemed to sell full deployment kits. The rest will sell the rifle only. WTF is with that? You need the Cadex tools to change the calibres which you need to buy and most don't even offer that for sale. Again you don't want only one calibre with a multi calibre system. I know Cadex is busy with rifles for Ukraine, but the roll out of the Kraken hasn't really lived up to expectations. This is a rifle that is significantly less expensive for Canadians than an AI or Barrett etc. It's a solid high end rifle that offers ergonomics that AI has just now caught up with (Chassis design). Rant over.

Sako TRG M10. Over priced. I love my older TRG22 rifles, but the newest one is really over priced. Even the accessories for the TRG22 are ridiculous. The TRG22 bipod for example.. Luckily I found one second hand. Brand new it's robbery. Mags as well. I have no doubt it's an excellent rifle, but you'll be paying for it and I don't consider it better than an AI. If it's a choice between the AI and Sako, I'll take the AI any day. Unless it's a smoking deal like I had with my TRG22 rifles, I would look elsewhere. That's also the problem I have with the Steyr M1. You're at AI pricing. Just get the AI.

One suggestion. If you note Bartok5 has a pelican style case with the various barrels/bolts etc. This is what you want. I prefer soft cases for going to the range, but if you have all the calibre changes/bolts/mags etc it gets very heavy and is poorly organized in a soft case. The reality is you're not likely to change calibres at the range and it's better to have everything in an organized kit. I'll be doing this for my Multi calibre rifles going forward. Realized this after getting my AI AXMC. If I want two calibres, then I'll grab two for the soft case. It's just easier storage and organization to have a solid case with everything and then to pick from that.

Bottom line, all of these rifles systems are excellent. There is no wrong choice. It's which do you like better, can afford, is available or is the deal. Not too many people are upset with owning any of the above listed options.
 
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Thanks for all the info gents. The Kraken looks like a great choice for Canadians, but only being able to buy barrls from Cadex is a deal killer for me.
 
Good synopsis by Epoxy.

Let's assume that price isn't a factor for anyone buying one of these rifles. The OEM AI mags are stellar, as said, with the left side cut out. The AI AXSR buttstock is superior to Cadex IMO.

Cadex accuracy is impressive given the barrel change process.
 
Great write up Epoxy. Another thing on Mags AXSR mags are now $400 ish as well so if looking for cheaper mags the Kraken is a great option

Ouch! Didn’t realize the mags were that expensive!

One thing about mags I forgot to mention between the AXMC and AXSR. The AXMC has a 308/6.5 aluminum mag sleeve that goes into the mag well and clips in. You remove it for the 300 and 338 calibres. The AXSR mags in 308/6.5 don’t use a sleeve and like Desert tech all the different calibre mags fit without an adapter. Oh and the AXSR mags work in the AXMC so you could use those in 308 and not require the sleeve. The sleeve/adapter however doesn’t work in the AXSR.
 
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