well, the place is everywhere and its not a question of being legal or not..its well doccumented....they dont take a brake trying to peel away our rights... so why hide....the ruined hunting trip is a moot point as, well, I spend a hundred bucks on food and beer then head to the camp for a weeks worth of top notch hunting.
AIA 10 Round magazines in Norinco M305
- Thread starter haha49
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well, the place is everywhere and its not a question of being legal or not..its well doccumented....they dont take a brake trying to peel away our rights... so why hide....the ruined hunting trip is a moot point as, well, I spend a hundred bucks on food and beer then head to the camp for a weeks worth of top notch hunting.
screwtape: they ARE clearly marked...are you not paying attention ?
..if everyone had your "dont be the test case" idea then nothing would ever get done cuz'everyone would be too afraid to try anything... there is no IF they are marked, do some research, they are well marked and its well doccumented within the RCMP. look into it. You think im planing to use an XCR with a LAR mag just to pick a fight? Are you new? Im doing somthing legal..not looking for a fight.. YOUR bickering about it. Im sure I can get a lawyer to help if ever needed, bassed on your general lack of knoledge on this topic, im sure YOU are prolly' not my best bet in winning. Im glad your happy with what you have, no need to shat on others for doing somthing legal..
and dont keep going on and on about it, then saying you dont care...if this is the case, you would not have bothered typing anything at all.
thanks for coming out lol
..if everyone had your "dont be the test case" idea then nothing would ever get done cuz'everyone would be too afraid to try anything... there is no IF they are marked, do some research, they are well marked and its well doccumented within the RCMP. look into it. You think im planing to use an XCR with a LAR mag just to pick a fight? Are you new? Im doing somthing legal..not looking for a fight.. YOUR bickering about it. Im sure I can get a lawyer to help if ever needed, bassed on your general lack of knoledge on this topic, im sure YOU are prolly' not my best bet in winning. Im glad your happy with what you have, no need to shat on others for doing somthing legal..
and dont keep going on and on about it, then saying you dont care...if this is the case, you would not have bothered typing anything at all.
thanks for coming out lol
i REALLY dont get why some people are getting there thongs in a knot....READ the laws...dont bicker about it on a forum, and dont ever take somone else's word for somthing. Learn for your self.
this internal bickering is why we some times sound like a bunch of bickering fudds instead of one voice.
this internal bickering is why we some times sound like a bunch of bickering fudds instead of one voice.
lol. are you talking about yourself? I prescribe some much needed range time, away from the computer. You seem to be taking everyones comments to seriously and personally. Some guys just avoid any hassle cause they want to, theyre not telling anyone to do the same. Your right about being clearly legal with the mags and documentation. FWIW you cannot hunt big game in Alberta with them in an M14, I dont know about other provinces. Varmint, small game and non-migratory game birds except turkeys are gtg in Alberta.
hmm, could be right...been a loooong week in the shop..Range day tomorow should settle things down....
really tho, im not bickering, just keep repeating the facts lol....kinda sick of hearing people say dont do this dont do that out of fear...
really tho, im not bickering, just keep repeating the facts lol....kinda sick of hearing people say dont do this dont do that out of fear...
I spoke to a company that makes 50 round 308 drum mags if I can sent the gun and the magazine they would be willing to make magazines for it for the canadian market. I just don't have the time or want to do all the paper work to do it.
I think the firearm is Itar blocked from import due to the fact it has no us made parts but if they can get 1 and the magazine they would be willing to make the magazine.
I go above and beyond the storage laws. So what?
I also own AIA magazines for my M305. I do carry paperwork around with the FRT# and a printout of the relevant section of the act and the statement from RCMP about LAR mags. I don't HAVE to do that. But it would seem like my life is more likely to go well if I do, so I carry it all.
If you want to push the envelope in every situation just because you can then feel free to sling your unloaded non restricted over your shoulder and wander around downtown Toronto. Let me know how that works out for you.
Ok, again, if WE ( the firearms community) do not work on easing the general public into accepting us, and our equipment...who will?
this is not pushing the envelope. Its operating within the law.
heading into toronto to go on a one man NR rifle march could be a bad idea...baby stebs brother lol
I agree that carrying FRT numbers and other info regarding our "toys" is a good idea...after a while maybe we wont have to even worry about needing them as they will slowly become common knoledge.
this discussion is falling apart.
Four final comments from me on this thread, and then I'm done:
1. Personal credentials to talk: No, I am not 'new' and 'lacking knowledge', thank you very much.
FWIW, I've been in the firearms law business since before Bill C-68. When Bill C-68 was first proposed, I was one of the founding members of one of the first provincial firearms owners groups organized to fight it: the Saskatchewan Responsible Firearms Owners.
Actually, I was the one who convinced the group to use the word "Responsible" in our name, to force the news media and also our anti-gun opponents to link 'firearms owner' with 'responsible'. Until then, the antis had been waging a quite successful all-out propaganda campaign to paint all firearms owners as rabid, wild-eyed mentally unbalanced gun nuts. Forcing the anti-gunners like Wendy Cukier and Allan Rock to call us 'responsible' did two things: it put a crimp in their propaganda effort and it made them practically choke with rage whenever they had to force the word out.
During the C-68 fight, I helped author many of the papers put out by the firearms groups, especially on issues of rights and constitutional points. My brother and I also put together an estimate for SRFO of the probable cost of the proposed Long Gun Registry to counter the Liberal government's claim that the program would only cost $17M ($15M of which would be recovered from fees). Our estimate of the LGR cost was a minimum of $250M and more probably close to $1B. Even many of our fellow lobbyists raised an eyebrow at those figures. In the end, we were not too high but about $1B too low; but SRFO came closer to the true cost than anyone else in Canada. Oh yes, and I testified about the Bill in front of the House of Commons committee.
So when it comes to firearms law, I have been at the game for a very looong time.
2. Re the LAR-15 mag:
In my first post I said I hadn't had a chance to examine the LAR-15 or AIA magazines personally, but gave a general warning about what should be on any mag if you wanted to use it. Whereupon a couple people became very huffy about that advice.
In my second post, after you commented that the LAR-15 mag was marked, I said: "If the LAR magazines are very clearly marked as being for a LAR, and you have documentation available to carry with you that will make it clear to the stupidest schmuck that the LAR is a pistol and therefore the magazine is legal, then great: that covers my point nicely."
After which, you posted the above comment.
Since then, I have had a chance to look at a LAR-15 mag, and it is very clearly marked - in what appears to be a roll-on ink label - "Model LAR-15 Pistol Magazine ... Capacity 10 Rounds". So, yes, I agree, it is very nicely marked, and if you carry the RCMP documentation about pistol mags with you, then you should with reasonable luck avoid any difficulties.
I would add one caveat to that: if time and contact with gun oils and cleaning solvents causes that inked label to become illegible, then you had better consider that magazine spent and replace it.
3. I have not had any luck finding either an AIA magazine or a picture of one, so I can't comment about its markings. However, I will reiterate my original warning that, if you want to use an over-capacity mag in your semi-auto rifle, it had better be clearly stamped as a pistol or bolt-action rifle mag. And even then, depending on what police officer / Crown prosecutor you are dealing with, you may still have more problems than you care to believe possible.
4. Pepper spray
Why do I still stand by my first warning, and reiterate it in paragraph 3? Because of 20 years of professional experience with the treatment of pepper spray by police and prosecutors.
As you are all weapon aficionados and obviously thoroughly familiar with the weapons sections of the Criminal Code and Firearms Act, the accompanying regulations, and the resulting case law, I assume you know that there are two kinds of pepper spray under Canadian law: evil pepper spray and good pepper spray.
Evil pepper spray is intended for use against humans. It is a 'prohibited weapon' under the Criminal Code and is completely 100% illegal for everyone except the police and military.
Good pepper spray is intended for use against animals. It is 100% legal, completely non-restricted, and even children can own it.
How do you tell the difference between the two? If you find yourself on the business end of it, you probably can't. A chemical comparison may not help much either. However, 'good' pepper spray is manufactured solely for personal protection against animals, such as dogs and bears, by manufacturers who not only mark it for this purpose, they also register it as such with the Department of Agriculture under the Pest Control Products law and regulations. As such, 'good' pepper spray is assigned a serial number by the government under the PCP regulations, and the manufacturer marks this PCP# on the can. The pepper spray is then officially classified in law as an 'agricultural chemical' and is legal for commercial sale in farm supply, camping and sporting goods stores across the nation.
How long has this distinction in pepper sprays been 'well known' and 'well established' in Canadian law? Over 20 years.
So if you decide to go jogging or walking with a can of PCP#-marked 'dog spray' in your pocket for protection against 'stray dogs', you shouldn't have ANY trouble at all, right?
Right ... unless you run into a police officer who doesn't like you. In that case, your chances of being arrested and charged for 'possession of a prohibited weapon, to wit pepper spray' are ... rather high.
And you know something? You can point out the PCP number on the can, wave the regulations at the officer, and the JP at the station. But I will almost guarantee that if you are arrested on Friday night, you will still sit in jail until court Monday before finally being released on conditions pending trial, because you have been arrested on 'serious weapons charges.' And you will probably find your name in the Monday evening newspaper under that heading: 'Local man arrested on serious weapons charge'. And, if you are very unlucky, even after pointing out the PCP# and the regulations to the prosecutor, you may still have to actually go to trial to clear yourself.
How do I know this? Because in the last 20 years, this has happened to several hundred people in my province. The ones I represented, were acquitted. Those who had other lawyers or no lawyers ... may not have been so lucky. Multiply that across Canada, and the number of people arrested and charged for possessing a 'prohibited weapon' that was completely legal is probably in the thousands.
So don't tell me it can't happen with your legal 10-round magazine in your rifle.
Show me exactly where I said not to carry documentation?
I was responding to the people that refuse to use the AIA mags for fear that someone might at some time in the future not know the law about them. I carry documentation for the mags rulings , the storage and transport laws as well.
But fear that I might offend some one or that some one might not know the law does not change the legal things I do.
Shawn
The AIA magazine is made diffrently it doesn't have to be marked because it's physicaly diffren't
The issuse with the 10 round pistol mags were that 10 round rifle magazines were the same and you couldn't tell them apart so they just called them all rifle magazines. Thats why they mark them if they can't tell the diffrence they tend to assume its incorrect.
What matters is what it was designed and manfactured for if it was 1 firearm or many thats what matters.
Well reasoned discussion on both sides..but I tend to agree with Screwtape. I dont make a habit of kicking hornets nests and in my opinion this is one big nest.
I dont know what the police are like in your neck of the woods, but around here its arrest and detain and never ever say sorry we were wrong.
They are so unsure of the majority of law they just go sweep the streeets and let the judge sort it all out. Meantime your in the slammer, on the #### list and paying for a lawyer.
I appreciate its your right to act within the law and respect you for going nose to nose with the law....but I have a prety good idea whos gettin the bloody nose...its sad but its true.
Great discussion tho.
I dont know what the police are like in your neck of the woods, but around here its arrest and detain and never ever say sorry we were wrong.
They are so unsure of the majority of law they just go sweep the streeets and let the judge sort it all out. Meantime your in the slammer, on the #### list and paying for a lawyer.
I appreciate its your right to act within the law and respect you for going nose to nose with the law....but I have a prety good idea whos gettin the bloody nose...its sad but its true.
Great discussion tho.
screwtape - The AIA 7.62x51 rifle was originally designed to use M-14 magazines. This would have caused problems if magazines held more than 5 rounds. So a variant magazine was designed and manufactured, specifically for the AIA. It is very similar to an M-14 magazine, but two mechanical features differ. The square hole for the M-14 front magazine catch is omitted, and the lower locking surface of the lug on the rear of the magazine is cut at an angle, not square like a M-14 magazine. It is not a modified M-14 magazine; it is new production specifically for the AIA rifle.
The AIA 7.62x39 rifle was designed to use AK magazines; no AIA specific magazine was developed, so the 7.62x39 AIA rifle magazine is limited to 5 rounds.
The AIA 7.62x39 rifle was designed to use AK magazines; no AIA specific magazine was developed, so the 7.62x39 AIA rifle magazine is limited to 5 rounds.
Thank you for that succinct description of the difference between the AIA 7.62x51 mag and an M-14 one. Another member privately sent me a video clip showing the magazines being compared side by side.
The problem I see is that the AIA mag has no markings on it whatsoever to show what firearm it was originally designed to fit. The LAR-15 mag is at least clearly labelled as being for a LAR-15 Pistol. The AIA mag has nothing. Instead you have to rely on what could best be described as rather subtle differences in construction to identify it.
So if you are stopped, the officer tells you that you have a 10-round magazine on your semi-auto rifle and are under arrest for possession of a prohibited magazine. You then say to the officer: "No officer, this 10-round unmarked metal box mag in my rifle doesn't actually belong to this rifle. It was really made for a bolt-action instead, so it's completely legal."
The officer says "Oh yeah? Prove it."
You then point out that the lug surface is angled instead of square, a normal hole is missing in the front, and the mag has 3 dimples instead of 4 on the locking lug.
After which the officer then says "Whatever. All I see is an unmarked 10-round mag in your rifle, which is illegal. You want to claim different, go tell it to the judge." And off to the lock-up you go.
It may actually take you a trial with expert witnesses to establish that you were right.
And since the difference between the magazines was not 'patently obvious' (i.e. apparent to any layperson unversed in the fine points of firearms construction), forget any idea you have of a lawsuit for damages for wrongful arrest or malicious prosecution.
I agree...
If they say its ok, then Im gonna go ahead and do it.
and some people still dont get why im not suprised about our current situation as a firearms community...
I'm just going to throw this out there, after reading this thread.
But don't we have companies that can manufacture mags as members on this forum ?
Perhaps if we brought this loophole to their attention they can be convinced to bake up some "clearly labeled" hotcakes.
Nothing fancy, just 10 rounders identical to the AIA mag. As a 305 owner myself, I'd be happy with that. And there are a tonne enough 305 owner to make it worth it I think.
But don't we have companies that can manufacture mags as members on this forum ?
Perhaps if we brought this loophole to their attention they can be convinced to bake up some "clearly labeled" hotcakes.
Nothing fancy, just 10 rounders identical to the AIA mag. As a 305 owner myself, I'd be happy with that. And there are a tonne enough 305 owner to make it worth it I think.
