AIA Enfield mags - Here in 2014 **ACCEPTING PRE-ORDERS**

[NR Magazine]

NR, can you confirm how the magazines will be limited to 10? Rivet, block/pillar, or native 10/10 body size?

I ask because I hate rivets, if they are to be 10 shot capacity I would prefer them to have a short body.

Right now we're looking at using a rivet. The reason being, is that the RCMP have suggested either this or a physical dint in the mag body. The RCMP have cited case law on these methods as being "permanent", so according to law in Canada, a rivet is a permanent blocking mechanism. Any internal blocking mechanisms are NOT. If you don't like the rivet, I would suggest looking at the 10 round size mag.

Also, as a side note, because the AIA Enfield magazine has been officially identified by the RCMP as a dual use magazine with the M14 rifle, I'll come right out and say this: Yes, the mags are designed from scratch as AIA Enfield mags (different rear lock up tab dimensions and no hole in the front of the mag - for starters), but they still work in a M14.

 

[GUB]

And what rifle did that shooter use in Moncton ??? Did you guys have a cz 858 or a Swiss Arms like I did?? As I said things can change on a whim!!!! I assume the new ruleing was before the shooting?

 

[Nushooter]

So is there going to be any kind of price adjustment? Cause lets face it, near $80 for a 25rd mag is pretty cool, $80 for a 10rd mag not so cool. Especially when I can get x4 5rd mags for the price of x1 10rd mag. This kind of stuff is why vendors shouldn't be demanding payment before a product until it is actually in stock and available for purchase. I realize the retailer had no way of knowing the RCMP would flip flop, still very disappointing.

 

[NoTarget]

So is there going to be any kind of price adjustment? Cause lets face it, near $80 for a 25rd mag is pretty cool, $80 for a 10rd mag not so cool. Especially when I can get x4 5rd mags for the price of x1 10rd mag. This kind of stuff is why vendors shouldn't be demanding payment before a product until it is actually in stock and available for purchase. I realize the retailer had no way of knowing the RCMP would flip flop, still very disappointing.

I wonder if manufacturing just one style of 10 round magazine would lower production costs enough to make a difference on the price?

 

[DOOK]

What a bunch of CRAP! There is really nothing to stop them from deciding this way on any mag that fits other guns.
There is nothing in the law that mentions 'dual use'. They are making it up to suit themselves.
Can't say I'm surprised.

What will they call the AIA mags when they come out with the new 12 round capacity recently allowed in Aus?
This is bul####! They are bolt action mags. This #### has to stop!

 

[Ace604]

So is there going to be any kind of price adjustment? Cause lets face it, near $80 for a 25rd mag is pretty cool, $80 for a 10rd mag not so cool. Especially when I can get x4 5rd mags for the price of x1 10rd mag. This kind of stuff is why vendors shouldn't be demanding payment before a product until it is actually in stock and available for purchase. I realize the retailer had no way of knowing the RCMP would flip flop, still very disappointing.

This and is there any time frame on cancellation not incurring penalties.

 

[screwtape]

Right now we're looking at using a rivet. The reason being, is that the RCMP have suggested either this or a physical dint in the mag body. The RCMP have cited case law on these methods as being "permanent", so according to law in Canada, a rivet is a permanent blocking mechanism. Any internal blocking mechanisms are NOT. If you don't like the rivet, I would suggest looking at the 10 round size mag.

Also, as a side note, because the AIA Enfield magazine has been officially identified by the RCMP as a dual use magazine with the M14 rifle, I'll come right out and say this: Yes, the mags are designed from scratch as AIA Enfield mags (different rear lock up tab dimensions and no hole in the front of the mag - for starters), but they still work in a M14.

Glad to hear it's just a rivet. I have pre-bought not just the 10-round mags but at least one 20-round as well. And if you 'block' it by putting a rivet in it rather than a permanent dent in the body, then once it is through Customs and in my hands, I am perfectly free to drill the rivet out and use it as a 20 round mag in my AIA Enfield if I choose to do so (and yes, I do own an AIA and that is what I will be using the mag in).

Why would I choose to do so? Because I rather doubt any Crown prosecutor in Saskatchewan is going to be stupid enough to try to go into court and argue that a magazine expressly built for use in the AIA Enfield BOLT ACTION rifle is a "prohibited device" on the basis of that "dual use" bull####-- when there is absolutely NO support for that interpretation whatsoever either in the Criminal Code or in the Cartridge Magazine Regulations and the RCMP are basically just pulling it out of their backsides.

 

[HeadDamage]

I believe that the RCMP is now saying that you can not use a magazine of greater than 10rds in any Lee Enfield type rifle which to be fair is the way the law is written. Don't mean it is a good law but it is written this way.

 

[maxman1]

I'm not surprised at this. Technically the AIA rifle is based of a Lee Enfield, hence the 10 round limit. Let's be happy that they didn't consider it "designed for a semi automatic". I'm going to keep my order.

There is no ten round limit for the Lee Enfield magazine. The Lee Enfield magazine is specifically exempt from limits because there are experimental automatic varients, such as the Charlton rifle.

Also, there's a twenty round magazine. Is it possible for Northern Republic to make new ones?

Incidentally, I've been working on an M14 in .303 that uses Lee Enfield magazines. So far, it hasn't progressed beyond the theoritcal stage.

 

[screwtape]

I believe that the RCMP is now saying that you can not use a magazine of greater than 10rds in any Lee Enfield type rifle which to be fair is the way the law is written. Don't mean it is a good law but it is written this way.

This has been discussed many many times on this forum. That is NOT the way the law is written. The cartridge magazine regulations include limitations on magazine size ONLY for centre-fire SEMI-AUTO rifles --- NOT for BOLT ACTIONS.

The commentary about the Lee Enfield magazine was put in specifically as an EXEMPTION -- and it is clearly written as an EXEMPTION, not a LIMITATION.

The reason it was put in place was because - when the magazine regulations were being shoved down our throats back in 1995 - the NFA pointed out that there was an obscure WW2 experimental prototype called the Charlton that was an attempt to convert a Lee Enfield bolt action rifle (either SMLE Mk. III or No. 4 Mk 1 - or possibly both) into a full auto weapon. And, because it was based on the Lee Enfield bolt action rifle it was designed to use Lee Enfield 10-round magazines. The NFA kindly pointed out that the stupid regulations, as proposed, could be interpreted so as to turn every Lee Enfield rifle in the country effectively into a prohibited weapon - by outlawing ALL their magazines. And the Lee Enfield at the time was probably the most common rifle in use among the Indian and Inuit subsistence hunters in Canada. The "fix" was to slap that EXEMPTION clause into the regulations to make it crystal clear to even the stupidest and pettiest officious Firearms Officer that Lee Enfield magazines were NOT subject to the 5-round semi-auto rifle limit despite the fact that one semi-auto rifle had once been expressly designed to use them.

In short, to be fair "you can not use a magazine of greater than 10rds in any Lee Enfield type rifle" is NOT the way the law is written no matter what the stupid and officiously petty twits in the RCMP Firearms Confiscation Section are now claiming.

 

[maxman1]

an obscure WW2 experimental prototype called the Charlton that was an attempt to convert a Lee Enfield bolt action rifle (either SMLE Mk. III or No. 4 Mk 1 - or possibly both) into a full auto weapon.

It was the No. 1 Mk. III*. Australia and New Zealand never adopted the No. 4.

 

[screwtape]

It was the No. 1 Mk. III*. Australia never adopted the No. 4.

Thanks. I thought so, but wasn't sure and couldn't be bothered to go and dig the reference up for a discussion on the mag regs. If it had been a discussion on obscure Lee Enfield variants, I would of course have dug out sources, footnotes, pictures and so forth. (You know, that's an interesting concept, isn't it? ... a thread about firearms history as opposed to firearms legislation history on a firearms enthusiasts' website ...)

 

[maxman1]

No problem.

Apparently, almost all were destroyed in a fire at a warehouse after the war, and only about three are known to exist, all in museums.

 

[HeadDamage]

I would like to know how I am miss reading it, and I know that I could well be doing so. So is a Garand limited to 8rds or could it have as many as you modified it to take. I find this whole section confusing to read. Is the Enfield limited to 10rds or to 10rds if it is a semi auto magazine?

(2) Paragraph (1)(a) does not include any cartridge magazine that

(a) was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm that

(i) is chambered for, or designed to use, rimfire cartridges,

(ii) is a rifle of the type commonly known as the “Lee Enfield” rifle, where the magazine is capable of containing not more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed, or

(iii) is commonly known as the U.S. Rifle M1 (Garand) including the Beretta M1 Garand rifle, the Breda M1 Garand rifle and the Springfield Armoury M1 Garand rifle;

 

[sky52]

Regardless what the law is. 75$ for an extra 5 rounds is not financially practical. 75$ for 25 rnds is a different ball game. This is so bulls### it's not even funny.

 

[maxman1]

I'm surprised no one has asked if M1s made by manufacturers other than Springfield, Beretta and Breda are limited to five rounds.

 

[Nushooter]

Regardless what the law is. 75$ for an extra 5 rounds is not financially practical. 75$ for 25 rnds is a different ball game. This is so bulls### it's not even funny.

I second that. Your better off getting a magwedge magazine coupler and sticking a couple 5 rounders together. Me thinks mabey NR Magazine suspected this may happen, why else demand money up front for a product that hasn't even been manufactured yet. Never trust a business that expects money up front for somthing that doesn't even exist. No price drop equals no business from this customer. I urge those of you who paid up front to cqncel your orders and get the point across that this kind of practice is unacceptable not to mention dishonest.

 

[B]

The price was the same regardless of which mag you bought. If you don't like what happened cancel your order and move on. I don't see anything dishonest here. It was not NR's decision to rescind the status of these mags. They have already refunded my money and I will place an order for 10/10 mags.

 

[Stevebot-7]

I second that. Your better off getting a magwedge magazine coupler and sticking a couple 5 rounders together. Me thinks mabey NR Magazine suspected this may happen, why else demand money up front for a product that hasn't even been manufactured yet. Never trust a business that expects money up front for somthing that doesn't even exist. No price drop equals no business from this customer. I urge those of you who paid up front to cqncel your orders and get the point across that this kind of practice is unacceptable not to mention dishonest.

NRM is offering a full refund to anyone who pre-ordered, and as far as I can see they have provided quick notice to all affected customers. How is that dishonest? The RCMP had previously given the okay for the full-capacity magazines, and only recently reversed their decision and ruled them to be dual-purpose.

Pre-orders paid for in advance are an essential component of bringing new products to the market. Would a bank give NRM a $75,000 loan to manufacture a new type of magazine? Maybe, but there's a more friendly reception in getting 1,000 pre-orders from customers who are directly and actively interested in that product.

 

[rally guy]

Well unfortunately I cancelled my order. Financially I had to cancel. I will probably uy 2 10/3
20 mags in the future. I still feel like the fa lab screwed us but even more NR mags. I can't help but think the Moncton rambo from last week have to do something with this, but it's all speculations.