AICS stock with Remington 700 ...

Otokiak

Otokiak

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I was told that you could just drop my Remington 700 Police .308 rifle into a AICS stock with not bedding ... then I read here somewhere that you should bed it as the action edges are rounded. What do you think ... bed it or no? I'm expecting a 1.5 AICS stock for my Remington and hope like hell I like it. Thanks for your help my fellow CGNer's,

Otokiak
Rankin Inlet, NU
CANADA
 
Put your action in the AICS, torque at 65in/lbs and shoot.

That is it!

Yes, some people will bed the action for different reason, most will be satisfied without the bedding
 
For the most consistent set up, bedding will be critical. So much depends on the dimensions of the bedding block and the action.

I have seen enough wonky sizing that seated actions were literally BENT when torqued down. That's not good.

I personally do not like high torque on action screws to solve bedding issues. The action screws should not be recoil lugs nor should they hold A&B together with brute force.

In time, parts will loosen and pillars will wear. Now you will get flyers and all manner of irritants. This style of bedding block doesn't ensure return to POI if the action and stock are taken apart. Give it a try and you will see.

At 100yds, it might be close - within 2 MOA but further out, you just got a nice miss. AI quality control may be better then the domestic stocks so your mileage will vary.

Proper bedding WILL return to POI.

Jerry
 
Here is the deal with the AI stocks,

The channel in which the action is seated is milled out of a block of Aluminum. Its flat in the bottom with tappered sides. Appropriate slots cut for recoil lug, trigger, etc. The sides are two peices of plastic that is bolted around the hunk of AL.

The platform is superbly built, some love it and some hate it. It just so happens to work well for me.

The problems will lie more in the fact that the Rem action is most likely not perfect, ie machined to .0001 inch all around, thus when you seat it on the stock there are imperfections created.

With the AI stocks, most end up skim bedding it. This removes the problems caused my surface / machining imperfections between the action and stock, and, as Mysticplayer has note, eliminates torquing action screws to try and correct a problem. The bedding provides a perfect fit, and less chance of Zero shift if the take it apart.
 
Let me add this, I had a Rem 700p with no modification sitting on the AICS for the past 5 years.
I removed the stock maybe 3 time in that period and dont even remember if re zeroing was necessary.

Shot the rifle at 1000yds for couple of years and now mostly 600m.

Bedding was the least of my concern because the barrel was wearing out and that is where my attention for accuracy was focused.(OAL of cartridge)

I sold the action and barrel and purchase a Surgeon action to put on the AICS.
2 barrels(308/260AI) of heavy countour will be sitting on the plateform and a bedding at this point is essential to accomplish the accuracy potential.

If you decide to get the action bedded, truing the action and recutting the chamber would be worth it to get the most out of the rifle.

Personnaly, unless you have serious accuracy issue, wear out the barrel and then send the whole thing to a gunsmith for rebarreling,truing,bedding.
 
Otokiak said:
I was told that you could just drop my Remington 700 Police .308 rifle into a AICS stock with not bedding ... then I read here somewhere that you should bed it as the action edges are rounded. What do you think ... bed it or no? I'm expecting a 1.5 AICS stock for my Remington and hope like hell I like it. Thanks for your help my fellow CGNer's,

Otokiak
Rankin Inlet, NU
CANADA
Click to expand...

Here are the real deal with AICS stock, you do not need additional bedding, Even on the HS PSS stock, there is no need to bed the action, the only people said that you need bedding are Usually Gunsmith...
 
smallblock said:
I was told 65in/lbs is too much torque for action screws. AI torque specs are: 6nm = 53.0639 inch pounds for action screws.

SB
Click to expand...


Been used by snipers and competitors for years with no problems.
Reference to that effect can be found on Sniper Hide Forum.
 
It also says that on my AI spec sheet
Scan0005.jpg
 
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GunBoy said:
Here are the real deal with AICS stock, you do not need additional bedding, Even on the HS PSS stock, there is no need to bed the action, the only people said that you need bedding are Usually Gunsmith...
Click to expand...


Disagree and I just own very accurately shooting rifles.

The heavy torque on the action screws is a band aid solution to a poorly executed design. Can it function?...YES. Is it ideal? NOPE

Since HS was mentioned, I can say I have worked on a couple of these stocks that BENT the action when the action screws were tightened.

In ACCURACY circles, an interference fit between the action and the stock is critical to stable, consistent and accurate fire. That fit must not cause any bending/torquing stress on the barreled action.

Simple test, put the action in the CNC'ed drop in inletting without action screws. Can the action be moved within the bedding? The worse I have seen was 1/4" fore and aft plus rolling about 15degs from vertical. The only contacts the action made with the stock were through the action screws. The recoil lug wasn't even touching.

Put on the action screws and with your hand on top of the action, tighten and loosen the screws. Can you feel the action move? The worse was a visible movement of the action up and down. It took over 1/8" of bedding BUILT UP to level the action in the chassis. Try bending your action 1/8" and see how well it likes it!

Ever get ring marks even with mondo dollar super precision rings and bases?

If you have used the rifle for a bit, take apart and look at the action screw holes and recoil lug area. Any dark spots? Any signs of "burning", dust or shiney wear? Look in the action screw holes. Can you see thread marks?

Any bluing missing from under the action around the front action screw hole?

When shooting, ever get a few touching then one or more just out? Happens randomly no matter what load or ammo you use? Groups are still sub MOA but you wonder what would happen if all the shots went into the bughole group.

Usually the solution told is to put on a match barrel and accurize/true up the action. I bet you still have those flyers after you are done spending all that extra money.

A properly bedded stock will allow you to take a rifle apart and reassemble with no loss of zero. An alum chassis even at high torque will not do that repeatedly. Try it....

Once you have reviewed the above, make a decision whether bedding is worthwhile or not.

I read everywhere about the benefits of blue printing and action, holding alignment to a few thou. Most of this doesn't apply in a working rifle by the way. But if you have gone to all this trouble and expense, why would you throw this precision machined action into a stock then bend it?

Jerry
 
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I think you will be hard pressed to find a remington action OD or a AICS machined to a tolerance in the 10ths. Perhaps once they start grinding.....

Quote - The problems will lie more in the fact that the Rem action is most likely not perfect, ie machined to .0001 inch all around, thus when you seat it on the stock there are imperfections created. - unquote

The generous clearances of the factory receiver and most receivers accomodate bending etc.
 
Lets assume that the CNC inletting in the stock is dead true. Could be. If it isn't, bedding compound could be used to fit a true receiver to the factory bedding surfaces.
A Remington 700 receiver may not be true. Warpage happens. Mount one on a mandrel, and test it with a dial indicator, or use a decent straight edge. Might surprise you. A 40X should be straighter.
Some folks will put the receiver on a mandrel, and turn or grind it true. Only the contact surfaces on the bottom need to be cleaned up.
Or, if both receiver and bedding area are less than dead on, use bedding compound. Excessive torque is going to introduce all sorts of stresses if bedding is not correct. You want the barrelled action resting in neutral, so to speak.
 
Truing the action by making it SMALLER does nothing but aggravate the situation.

If the diameter is smaller then min spec, the action now falls deeper into the alum v block. If the bedding is actual round in contour, the situation is even worse as very little of the action is now supported by the bedding. Now the action can roll with only the action screws holding things in place.

Utlimately, these bedding blocks DO NOT WORK because tolerances are way too sloppy from the stock AND the action. Good in concept, horrid in execution. The most common band aid is torquing the crap out of those action screws and believing that things will not move around.

If someone had the opportunity to CNC a stock to MATCH the actual action being seated (interference fit), then the alum bedding would have significant benefits. No one would bother paying that type of money.

But if someone feels that all the expense and effort is needed to turn the outside of the action true, why not just invest in a few dollars in bedding compound and problem is now solved.

Besides, what is to say the alum block is true either????

Jerry
 
The Aluminum block is not completely true, neither are actions. I was using the .0001" simply as an example.:D

The channel in the AI stock is flat on the bottom and has tappered sides to cradle the action. It is very similar the an HS stock with the V-Shapped block.

The concept of not needing bedding with the chassi or v-block is nice but does not usually play out like that once the gun is together.

A properly bedded and stress free action is the answer.

Then, Just add bullets!:sniper:
 
mysticplayer said:
Disagree and I just own very accurately shooting rifles.

The heavy torque on the action screws is a band aid solution to a poorly executed design. Can it function?...YES. Is it ideal? NOPE

Since HS was mentioned, I can say I have worked on a couple of these stocks that BENT the action when the action screws were tightened.

In ACCURACY circles, an interference fit between the action and the stock is critical to stable, consistent and accurate fire. That fit must not cause any bending/torquing stress on the barreled action.

Simple test, put the action in the CNC'ed drop in inletting without action screws. Can the action be moved within the bedding? The worse I have seen was 1/4" fore and aft plus rolling about 15degs from vertical. The only contacts the action made with the stock were through the action screws. The recoil lug wasn't even touching.

Put on the action screws and with your hand on top of the action, tighten and loosen the screws. Can you feel the action move? The worse was a visible movement of the action up and down. It took over 1/8" of bedding BUILT UP to level the action in the chassis. Try bending your action 1/8" and see how well it likes it!

Ever get ring marks even with mondo dollar super precision rings and bases?

If you have used the rifle for a bit, take apart and look at the action screw holes and recoil lug area. Any dark spots? Any signs of "burning", dust or shiney wear? Look in the action screw holes. Can you see thread marks?

Any bluing missing from under the action around the front action screw hole?

When shooting, ever get a few touching then one or more just out? Happens randomly no matter what load or ammo you use? Groups are still sub MOA but you wonder what would happen if all the shots went into the bughole group.

Usually the solution told is to put on a match barrel and accurize/true up the action. I bet you still have those flyers after you are done spending all that extra money.

A properly bedded stock will allow you to take a rifle apart and reassemble with no loss of zero. An alum chassis even at high torque will not do that repeatedly. Try it....

Once you have reviewed the above, make a decision whether bedding is worthwhile or not.

I read everywhere about the benefits of blue printing and action, holding alignment to a few thou. Most of this doesn't apply in a working rifle by the way. But if you have gone to all this trouble and expense, why would you throw this precision machined action into a stock then bend it?

Jerry
Click to expand...

It is true that not all action are made the same even if it is the same make. have own up to 7 Rem700Pss in the pass and still have 4 of them on hand, and every one of them fit the aluminum bedding block like a glove, how ever I did see a closed friend of my rem700 varmint, the action doesn't seem to fit the stock, as result there is a slice movement between the action and stock, but generally, if the action of the rifles fit the stock, then there is no need for bedding, on one of my AICS stage one, which I have mount to my 700Varmint, there are no fitting problem, there is alway the Odd Situation...


Gunboy
 
Otokiak

For what it's worth, SSGP2 let me shoot his 700p in the AICS and i really liked the stock. The rifle shot great too.
 
TheCanuck, thanks for all your info, replies, etc ... I can't wait to get my hands on this AICS stock and try her out with my .308!!! ;) Cheers,

Otokiak
Rankin Inlet, NU
CANADA
 
I have used a AICS stock for 7 or so years......Have I bedded it.......not yet and it shoots like a laser.

Should you bed it...........yes............it could used a good skim bedding job.

As mentioned the problem most lies with the Rem 700 reciever outer dimensions. They are not perfectly round after finishing.

Even the H-S Precision "V-Block" stocks should be bedded.

Blackcloud & Mysticplayer have hit the nail on the head with their posts.;)

Next time I pull the action I will be bedding my rig.

As to torque specs,it depends on the type of stock you are using.If you are using a wood stock the torque spec is lower. I have the torque specs for the different types of stocks around here somewhere, but lets just say there are 3 or 4 different torque specs for different types of stocks.

The AICS is fine with 65 INCH pounds. I have torqued mine to that with no problems.

SKBY.
 
Here is some thought. If you go to the short range BR group equipment list you will see what is used and what seems to work. Alum stocks are very hard to find....perhaps due to weight and perhaps due to accuracy - extreme accuracy that is!
 
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