Aiming question - handguns

Somerset Bar

Somerset Bar

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Just looking for a tip or two. I have 3 handguns, a norinco 1911, a S&W 6" 686 and a german P226.

My question is aim. I can hit REALLY well and consistent with the 686, with .38 or .357. However with both the semi autos I am hitting low and to the left. It's not a sighting issue as my friend can put the shots right where he calls them (well the norinco is a little low and to the left but not as bad as I'm hitting). So it's obviously the way I'm aiming, but it's driving me nuts that I have to completely aim 2" up and left of my target, when I sight properly on the S&W.

Does this sound familiar to anyone? I'm thinking of swapping out the sights on the 226 as they are this weird skunk stripe design with a white front and a white stripe in the center of the back sights (hard to line up the back sights to the front). I'm trying to learn to shoot with both eyes open, instead of one, but after ~1000 rounds or more I figured I might as well ask you guys (I'm willing to put 10,000 rounds downrange to figure it out though :) ).

Anyway, any tips or suggestions on why I'm such a crappy shot, or even sight suggestions on the 226 would be appreciated. I just can't get over why I can't "get" it. I'm definitely considering a trip to the optometrist sometime soon as well :)
 
Sig sights tend to shoot lower like in image 3 below.

sightimages.jpg
 
JoKa said:
Trigger pull needs work.
You shooting you 686 in single action?
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Yes. The chart merc posted seems to coincide with your analysis too. I swear I'm pulling slow, holding breath etc. However the 686 is -such- a small trigger pull in SA. (man I just love that gun to bits).
 
You aren't alone, I'm the same wiyh my Sig 226. I can hit the bull at 10-15 yds but I consistently group low-left. I wasn't able to see my front sight well at all until I got proper glasses this week. Off to the range on Saturday to practise, practise, practise.
 
Here's a video where you see in action the minute little movement we do to make the rounds end up low-left. The 686, with it's light single action trigger, doesn't have the time to be jerked due to the hammer falling before the gun moves enough.

[youtube]hfYiayYE3c0[/youtube]
 
SgtMjr said:
You aren't alone, I'm the same wiyh my Sig 226. I can hit the bull at 10-15 yds but I consistently group low-left. I wasn't able to see my front sight well at all until I got proper glasses this week. Off to the range on Saturday to practise, practise, practise.
Click to expand...

Haha yeah, it may be time for me too. I made it to 45 without them but....


It's funny, with an ACOG on my AR-15 I can group fairly nice out to say 100 yards without supporting the rifle, but the handgun thing is driving me nuts. I'm glad I asked here, it makes me feel better that it's likely bad form and not bad gun (I can work of form, but the gun is the gun lol).

Do you have the same skunk stripe sights on the 226?
 
Somerset Bar said:
Haha yeah, it may be time for me too. I made it to 45 without them but....


It's funny, with an ACOG on my AR-15 I can group fairly nice out to say 100 yards without supporting the rifle, but the handgun thing is driving me nuts. I'm glad I asked here, it makes me feel better that it's likely bad form and not bad gun (I can work of form, but the gun is the gun lol).

Do you have the same skunk stripe sights on the 226?
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, mine is a German refurb. I too have no problem with a rifle either irons or optics.

I know it's my technique, the sighting thing was just another problem that needed a solution, now solved. My ex-CF buddy had no problem grouping consistently in the bull with my gun, he took pistol training with the Israeli's when he served in the Golan, he knew exactly what my difficulty was when he saw my targets.

So, I'll work on a proper grip and trigger pull and keep up the practise. Shooting is a perishable skill they say.
 
SgtMjr said:
Oh yeah, mine is a German refurb. I too have no problem with a rifle either irons or optics.

I know it's my technique, the sighting thing was just another problem that needed a solution, now solved. My ex-CF buddy had no problem grouping consistently in the bull with my gun, he took pistol training with the Israeli's when he served in the Golan, he knew exactly what my difficulty was when he saw my targets.

So, I'll work on a proper grip and trigger pull and keep up the practise. Shooting is a perishable skill they say.
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Ha! Yep I got the german refurb too, didn't want an american one, was looking for a while for a german. They do a great job at refurbishing, although the barrel in mine has a poor blueing finish. Feels like a million dollar bill in the hand, glad to hear that it's just me :)
 
Your problem likely has a lot more to do with trigger pull than it does with sighting.
On a longer trigger pull it is hard to keep the wrist straight and not let it bend.
Firstly, you should rest the gun on a sand bag and see how that effects where the bullets land, in relation to what the sights look like when the gun fires. If the poa is different when the gun is rested, then you know it is a trigger pull problem when you are shooting off hand.
You should always use the correct sight picture, as shown in the 6 o'clock hold in the diagrams. If the bullets land consistently off, then adjust the sights.
When you adjust your sights, change them only half at a time, of what you think you need.
 
H4831 said:
Your problem likely has a lot more to do with trigger pull than it does with sighting.
On a longer trigger pull it is hard to keep the wrist straight and not let it bend.
Firstly, you should rest the gun on a sand bag and see how that effects where the bullets land, in relation to what the sights look like when the gun fires. If the poa is different when the gun is rested, then you know it is a trigger pull problem when you are shooting off hand.
You should always use the correct sight picture, as shown in the 6 o'clock hold in the diagrams. If the bullets land consistently off, then adjust the sights.
When you adjust your sights, change them only half at a time, of what you think you need.
Click to expand...

A bunch of laser boresights just arrived, just so that I can be more certain that the sights are on, and I'm off. I had forgotten I had even ordered them, lol. I'll try the sandbag I probably should have thought of that myself, but nobody even accuses me of being too bright. :)
 
Thanks everyone, I'm glad I asked. Probably saved me $$$$$$ in ammo trying to figure it out with blind luck. Not that that is such a bad thing :)
 
Like the video said, toss in a random dummy round in each mag next time you're at the range. You'll be amazed at how much you make the sights move when you pull the trigger on that dummy round in anticipation of the recoil. :)
 
I will attest to what the others are saying. I'm a lefty and kept shooting to the right. I worked on my trigger pull and it made a huge difference. I can shoot middle now lol
The biggest factors for me, were trigger pull and extending my arms out properly.

What helped me a great deal with semis was not letting the trigger reset all the way. After a shot, release slowly until you hear the "click" for the reset and then pull from there to fire your next shot. This makes a huge difference in accuracy.
 
I group low and left as well, its standard for a rightie, trigger and grip. Shooting handguns is really hard, it's not like Hollywood, takes a course, practice and time and also don't be too hard on yourself, enjoy your time at the range.

I find shooting handguns is just as challenging as golfing, if I take it easy and enjoy myself I group better. If I swear and curse and hate myself then my groups really spread out.

I have a p226 and I find that I have to cover the entire poa with the whole back sight for me to hit it center. Plus it helps in not looking to see where your shots are going when you're shooting since your poa is covered. Just don't peak over the slide when shooting.

I recently bought a little ruger in .22 so that I can shoot more and practice more on cheaper ammo. When I have the fundamentals technique pretty mastered, I'll go back to my p226 and my shadow.
 
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Yeah low left (7 o'clock position) is trigger snap, and likely with a little too much finger tip pressure on the weapon hand as well. Remember that the grip pressure with the wepon hand needs to be front to back pressure, and your support hand provides side to side pressure. Kepp your grip consistant and try not to change it while shooting.
Try doing some dry fire work before you go live next time, all the while focusing on your front sight. During dry fire, the front sight should not move at all. Then, when you go live, fire 1 round, then go ahead and dry fire 10 times, then 1 live round, followed by another 10 dry fire presses. Repeat this 1 live, 10 dry cycle a few times and keep it as part of your general practice. In the end, your group should look a little better. (hopefully)
 
84wh1 said:
Yeah low left (7 o'clock position) is trigger snap, and likely with a little too much finger tip pressure on the weapon hand as well. Remember that the grip pressure with the wepon hand needs to be front to back pressure, and your support hand provides side to side pressure. Kepp your grip consistant and try not to change it while shooting.
Try doing some dry fire work before you go live next time, all the while focusing on your front sight. During dry fire, the front sight should not move at all. Then, when you go live, fire 1 round, then go ahead and dry fire 10 times, then 1 live round, followed by another 10 dry fire presses. Repeat this 1 live, 10 dry cycle a few times and keep it as part of your general practice. In the end, your group should look a little better. (hopefully)
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Well said...
 
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