I am posting this here since I figure there are probably more members in the milsurp arena that have dealt with prohib rifles that most others. An aquaintance of mine recently told me he has a Norinco AK, but his PAL expired quite some time ago. He had registered it back when they went restricted, and now doesn't know what he can do with it. My belief is that, according to our wonderful laws, he cannot transfer it anymore since his PAL expired and the rifle is prohibited. I would like to think I am wrong, but I think his only options are to turn it in or dewat it. Do any of you have any experience in this situation? I would suggest he call the CFC and ask, but I'm not sure of the quality/consistency of advice he will get from them.
AK dilemma
- Thread starter myenfield
- Start date
"...his PAL expired and the rifle is prohibited..." Hi. He's illegally in possession of an unregistered prohibited firearm and being in possession of a firearm without a licence. None of which can be registered now. AK's have been prohibited since 1995. Unless it was registered as a prohibited prior to then, his options are limited to dewatting or turning in his property for destruction.
AK's never were just restricted, as I recall. Not that it matters, they're totally evil now.
He can renew his PAL, but he won't get a prohibited permit.
AK's never were just restricted, as I recall. Not that it matters, they're totally evil now.
He can renew his PAL, but he won't get a prohibited permit.
ginseng503
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- N. Ontario
What if he dies and it gets sent to his executor? Could the executor sell it in the US? Can it be "willed" to a museum. Can a "movie armourer" use it whole, or in parts? Do all the guns in our armed forces have up to date firearms registration certificates or are they exempt?
That firearm was 100% legal several times in its history. There are identical ones still legal, albeit prohibited. I would hate to think the welding machine is the only alternative?
Lee Enfield
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Republic of Alberta
Hello, you guy's must have missed the "...registered it when they went restricted..."
It is registered, but (under the current "interpretation" of the) law his "grandfathering" has expired.
Did he register it as restricted or prohib? The fact the police have not come knocking makes me think it is not on the registration radar at all.
From: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/prohibited-prohibe-eng.htm
"What do I need to do to maintain my grandfathered privileges?
To stay grandfathered for a particular category of prohibited firearm, you must continuously hold a valid registration certificate for a firearm in that category from December 1, 1998 onward. To be able to hold a registration certificate for a firearm, you need a valid licence allowing you to possess that class of firearm, so make sure you renew your licence before it expires.
All registration certificates issued under the former law (prior to December 1, 1998) expired on December 31, 2002 so it was important to have re-registered it under the Firearms Act before the old certificate expired. If you have not re-registered your prohibited firearms, please call 1 800 731-4000 to find out your options. "
U.S. import - Not importable to the U.S., assault weapon AND banned Norinco product
Museum/movie company / prohib grandfatherd individual - The fact it was never registered as a prohib is the problem. You generally can not register or import any 'new' prohibs.
Strip for parts - Yes and turn in the destroyed receiver unless the feds determine AK internals are naughty bits or prohib devices in their own right.
Armed Forces - Yes, the armed forces has to register their guns as prohib and carry the reg certificates into battle. Also getting ATT's from the CFO in Ontario significantly adds to their deployment time
- kidding
From: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/prohibited-prohibe-eng.htm
"What do I need to do to maintain my grandfathered privileges?
To stay grandfathered for a particular category of prohibited firearm, you must continuously hold a valid registration certificate for a firearm in that category from December 1, 1998 onward. To be able to hold a registration certificate for a firearm, you need a valid licence allowing you to possess that class of firearm, so make sure you renew your licence before it expires.
All registration certificates issued under the former law (prior to December 1, 1998) expired on December 31, 2002 so it was important to have re-registered it under the Firearms Act before the old certificate expired. If you have not re-registered your prohibited firearms, please call 1 800 731-4000 to find out your options. "
U.S. import - Not importable to the U.S., assault weapon AND banned Norinco product
Museum/movie company / prohib grandfatherd individual - The fact it was never registered as a prohib is the problem. You generally can not register or import any 'new' prohibs.
Strip for parts - Yes and turn in the destroyed receiver unless the feds determine AK internals are naughty bits or prohib devices in their own right.
Armed Forces - Yes, the armed forces has to register their guns as prohib and carry the reg certificates into battle. Also getting ATT's from the CFO in Ontario significantly adds to their deployment time
- kidding
Last edited:
I don't believe it was ever "re-registered" as prohib. That is probably the reason the police haven't contacted him - there is a very good chance they don't know about it anymore. I had a faint hope that it could be transferred to someone with the right PAL endorsement (me), but I had my doubts.
I actually had an FN-FAL (converted auto) siezed and destroyed years ago under similar circumstances. The fellow that owned it had taken it to his local police to get re-registered as prohibited when the law changed and the local guys told him it was already registered and it couldn't be registered again. He tried explaining the situation, but they sent him home. I bought it from him a couple of years later and when I went to get the paperwork corrected I received a visit from the police. Since it hadn't been re-registered by the set deadline, it was illegal to own. I wasn't given the option to strip the receiver or dewat it. The really burn was that I already had the identical rifle (O.K., the serial number was different) and all grandfathered for CA. Don't you just love our gun laws?
I actually had an FN-FAL (converted auto) siezed and destroyed years ago under similar circumstances. The fellow that owned it had taken it to his local police to get re-registered as prohibited when the law changed and the local guys told him it was already registered and it couldn't be registered again. He tried explaining the situation, but they sent him home. I bought it from him a couple of years later and when I went to get the paperwork corrected I received a visit from the police. Since it hadn't been re-registered by the set deadline, it was illegal to own. I wasn't given the option to strip the receiver or dewat it. The really burn was that I already had the identical rifle (O.K., the serial number was different) and all grandfathered for CA. Don't you just love our gun laws?
If the rifle cannot be lawfully possessed by the present owner it cannot be lawfully possessed by any individual, including a gunsmith. By what lawful means may it even be transported anywhere except to the police?
Kayser Sose
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Van Isle
ah, I feel for the original poster... so sad, on so many levels.
It lost it's lawful status after the specified grandfathering date as previously discussed. This firearm presently has no lawful status for possession by any individual. The state may take possesion of it for disposal.
An executor has only those lawful rights previously enjoyed by the the estate they represent. If it was an un-grandfathered prohib before the owner died, it remains so afterwards and the executor is under the same obligation to lawfully dispose of it.
Firearms act S.19
19. (1) An individual who holds a licence authorizing the individual to possess prohibited firearms or restricted firearms may be authorized to transport a particular prohibited firearm or restricted firearm between two or more specified places for any good and sufficient reason, including, without restricting the generality of the foregoing,
(a) for use in target practice, or a target shooting competition, under specified conditions or under the auspices of a shooting club or shooting range that is approved under section 29;
(a.1) to provide instructions in the use of firearms as part of a restricted firearms safety course that is approved by the federal Minister; or
(b) if the individual
(i) changes residence,
(ii) wishes to transport the firearm to a peace officer, firearms officer or chief firearms officer for registration or disposal in accordance with this Act or Part III of the Criminal Code,
(iii) wishes to transport the firearm for repair, storage, sale, exportation or appraisal, or
(iv) wishes to transport the firearm to a gun show.
19 (b) (ii) seems to be the only lawful action in this case.
- Location
- The Police State: Ontario
Well, let's say at 8 lbs, 5 cents a pound for scrap steel....
Should be good for 40 cents. And then only if the wood parts are removed.
- Location
- WMU248 near Edmonton
"your boned" would be a good answer to the question.
its illegal.... well just the reciever is illegal and any mag bodies that are not pinned
the rest is just parts, you could strip it and deliver the reciever to the police for destruction.
Or for the safety of the children, imediately destroy the reciever and deliver the destroyed receiver parts to the police, this gives you some time to strip the now destroyed receiver of all its other bits.
I like the idea of dewatting the thing but my understanding of the situation and to comply with the laws is unless its rendered permanently inopperatable.. ie destroyed, no one can be in posession of it.
Now dealers may have an authorized loophole that allows them to re-register these 'lost' rifles, I don't know.
its illegal.... well just the reciever is illegal and any mag bodies that are not pinned
the rest is just parts, you could strip it and deliver the reciever to the police for destruction.
Or for the safety of the children, imediately destroy the reciever and deliver the destroyed receiver parts to the police, this gives you some time to strip the now destroyed receiver of all its other bits.
I like the idea of dewatting the thing but my understanding of the situation and to comply with the laws is unless its rendered permanently inopperatable.. ie destroyed, no one can be in posession of it.
Now dealers may have an authorized loophole that allows them to re-register these 'lost' rifles, I don't know.
