AK.... Valmet... Thoughts to ponder....

hfp75

hfp75

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OK,

You May ask how does the Valmet Hunter and M78 become Non-Restricted and none of the other Valmets or AKs.

One firearm, the Valmet Hunter, including the Valmet Hunter Auto and the Valmet M78, has been deleted from the class, as it has been determined that it is not essentially a paramilitary firearm and is suitable for hunting purposes.

Well, to fully understand this you need to understand that the receiver is the gun. If you take any receiver and recreate anything arround it it is still considered the initial gun. This allows gun owners to change or customize a gun. If you rework things to the 'max' you can create something new but really under the law it is the initial design.

Once upon a time the govt purchased 'Valmet Hunters in 308" for indigenous Canadians. When the initial legistlation changes happened in '95 all the Valmets & AKs were probibited. Once the above situation was reviewed - the guns that were provided were deprohibited. Remember that it is not just the gun but the receiver. So First it is the Valmet Hunter that gets deprohibited, BUT since the Valmet Hunter and the Valmet M78 have virtually the same machined receiver the M78 gets deprohibited also.

Valmet Hunter

hunter308b-500.jpg


Valmet M78

valmet4.jpg


Here lies a few of the glitches. Our govt did not recognise that the two receivers are not the same. The machined Hunter receivers have a few differences:

-Trigger in a different place - another trunion has been added
-A narrower mag well (308 only)
-3 tapped screw holes in the receiver to allow the dust cover to be secured for optics

You might ask then why was the M76 not deprohibited since it also has the same receiver? And it infact is closer to the Hunter receiver than the M78 receiver. Who knows - it looks meaner and is shorter and thus more portable making more dangerous?

Valmet M76

valmet10.jpg


With the above guns there is now another complication. There is no recognition of stamped vs. machined receivers!! The Hunters are all machined, the M78s are both stamped and machined, not that it matters but the M76 is also both stamped and machined.

You see that this deprohibition and reclassification was not done propery. If it was done correctly then the M76 would be deprohibited as it shares the same receiver.

Ultimatly in the End it is the receiver that matters and that is how a Valmet Hunter can end up looking like this:

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/Valmet-Misc/untitled.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/Valmet-Misc/000_0165.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/Valmet-Misc/valmet_223_galill.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/Valmet-Misc/valmet_223_galil2.jpg
 
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My advise is to tread very lightly into this subject. There was some talk of some people manufacturing "valmet" receivers, but that was a very gray area. My favorite though, 100% legit, is a members extreme re-dressing of a valmet to an aksu look-alike. It was a really neat idea that was still kept legal.
 
Some good points here Hfp75.

Indeed the M76 should have been reclassified. Mine has an 18" barrel so it should be restricted instead of prohibited. :mad:

M76081.jpg


This is a Valmet Hunter clone, not much difference between it and the M76 pictured above but the M76 is prohibed and the clone is non-restricted!!!

Gotta love it when lawyers and Wendy make gun laws!! NOT!!!

VAlmetclone.jpg
 
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hfp75 said:
OK,

You May ask how does the Valmet Hunter and M78 become Non-Restricted and none of the other Valmets or AKs.

One firearm, the Valmet Hunter, including the Valmet Hunter Auto and the Valmet M78, has been deleted from the class, as it has been determined that it is not essentially a paramilitary firearm and is suitable for hunting purposes.

Well, to fully understand this you need to understand that the receiver is the gun. If you take any receiver and recreate anything arround it it is still considered the initial gun. This allows gun owners to change or customize a gun. If you rework things to the 'max' you can create something new but really under the law it is the initial design.

Once upon a time the govt purchased 'Valmet Hunters in 308" for indigenous Canadians. When the initial legistlation changes happened in '95 all the Valmets & AKs were probibited. Once the above situation was reviewed - the guns that were provided were deprohibited. Remember that it is not just the gun but the receiver. So First it is the Valmet Hunter that gets deprohibited, BUT since the Valmet Hunter and the Valmet M78 have virtually the same machined receiver the M78 gets deprohibited also.


Here lies a few of the glitches. Our govt did not recognise that the two receivers are not the same. The machined Hunter receivers have a few differences:

-Trigger in a different place - another trunion has been added
-A narrower mag well (308 only)
-3 tapped screw holes in the receiver to allow the dust cover to be secured for optics

You might ask then why was the M76 not deprohibited since it also has the same receiver? And it infact is closer to the Hunter receiver than the M78 receiver. Who knows - it looks meaner and is shorter and thus more portable making more dangerous?

With the above guns there is now another complication. There is no recognition of stamped vs. machined receivers!! The Hunters are all machined, the M78s are both stamped and machined, not that it matters but the M76 is also both stamped and machined.

You see that this deprohibition and reclassification was not done propery. If it was done correctly then the M76 would be deprohibited as it shares the same receiver.
Click to expand...

Nice points, but how do you know that the M78 got de-prohibited due to receiver similarities, and not because of some other retarded reason?

If the government really did distribute some Hunters to the Natives, its possible that they distributed some M78's also, who knows...

Only the receiver of the milled .308 M76 NON-TUBE stock is similar to the Hunter reciever. These account for a VERY small % of all the M76's on the market, therefore it would make very little sence to re-classify them all. But then again, our gun laws never made any sence in the first place...

reckoner1 said:
This is a Valmet Hunter clone, not much difference between it and the M76 pictured above but the M76 is prohibed and the clone is non-restricted!!!

Gotta love it when lawyers and Wendy make gun laws!! NOT!!!

VAlmetclone.jpg
Click to expand...

Actually this particular clone would be restricted, since it has a 16" barrel.
Wyn didnt do his research and cut the barrel to 16" not knowing that .308 M76's have 18" barrels :)
It also has a Galil front sight post, recoil spring guide and a custom made stock. Very nice clone overall.
 
b-wingpilot said:
My advise is to tread very lightly into this subject. There was some talk of some people manufacturing "valmet" receivers, but that was a very gray area.
Click to expand...
There is nothing grey about it. It is black and white, cut and dry. You can not manufacture a Valmet unless you are the company Valmet. As they no longer exist, then you are SOL. Those that built "Valmets" broke the law.

In short, the only Valmets that are not prohibited are those few named that are already in the country. That means it is a finite number of rifles. The number of Valmets can not grow, only shrink.
 
Interestingly enough, you CAN get any old combloc AK parts it, strip a real Valmet M78 or Hunter receiver, and then rebuild the receiver with the parts kit, you end up with a legal AK from whatever country except with a Valmet M78 receiver.

Of course, since the Valmet and Galil are generally regarded as a step up from a bone-stock ak, I have no idea why anyone would do this...
 
Armedsask said:
There is nothing grey about it. It is black and white, cut and dry. You can not manufacture a Valmet unless you are the company Valmet. As they no longer exist, then you are SOL. Those that built "Valmets" broke the law.

In short, the only Valmets that are not prohibited are those few named that are already in the country. That means it is a finite number of rifles. The number of Valmets can not grow, only shrink.
Click to expand...

yes and no

YES you could import a non-prohib valmet and thus add to the numbers in country

NO you cant build your own "valmet" reciever
 
That would be cool, open a Valmet factory, while owning the rights to the name - it would take the lawyers years to settle (with the Government), if the rights are purchased then legally you ARE Valmet for the purposes of trade. I'd hire Armedsask for QC :D
 
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