*****Alberta Grizzly hunt suspended*****

One other thing to remember as well..............it is significantly harder to get a season re-instated at a later date than it is to just keep it, but reduce the permits. That fact has been proven time and time again.

Mark my words..............when the grizzly study is completed and they have their numbers, if they try to re-instate the draw, and that is a big IF, the save the grizzly groups will fight it tooth and nail.

It would have been a lot better if they had just cut the permits down to a handful and kept the draw in place.
 
Sasquatch said:
One other thing to remember as well..............it is significantly harder to get a season re-instated at a later date than it is to just keep it, but reduce the permits. That fact has been proven time and time again.

Mark my words..............when the grizzly study is completed and they have their numbers, if they try to re-instate the draw, and that is a big IF, the save the grizzly groups will fight it tooth and nail.

It would have been a lot better if they had just cut the permits down to a handful and kept the draw in place.
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As to the season being re-instated, it will be very interesting. The permits were down already Sasquatch...In my opinion, there was nothing wrong with the present...or "old" draw system.

The kill rate is very low in Alberta (on or about tenish a year?). Last time I got drawn (1998), I hunted in 524 (Chinchaga). We chased one for about 4 days in the muskeg...never got him. Tough hunting!

I had friends working at the Amoco plant, and they spotted many of them.

Hell, Fish and Wildlife "relocated" thirteen of them one year, and dropped them off about 60 kilometers from the highway.

Well...my priority was "6"...Wonder if a guy puts in for a 999...his priority number will go up for 3 years??...Kinda like a snowball in hell.
 
Lazy Ike said:
If they REALLY want to know whats happening to the bears perhaps they should look to the yuppies. Bear habitat lost due to yuppification. Bears re-located unsuccesfully due to yuppie encroachement. Bears destroyed due to yuppie concerns and or contact.
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This is a very valid point, gotta love the soccer moms, like here in BC in North Van; they build in previously natural areas, and would scream at any hunter in sight, but soon as a little black bear knocks over their garbage can it's a tragedy and the end of that bear.

We have a lady out here who's sueing the local government for damages because they didn't control the coyote population and one is suspected of eating her cat :rolleyes:

Personally, I feel there should not be a cougar hunt whatsoever, I say this as a hunter, and limited grizzly hunting should be. However, I'm not agreeing with the antis here, but we just don't need to hunt cougar and their range has been hugely reduced, I say leave them be.
 
Sasquatch said:
Cougars range in BC greatly reduced...........interesting. What info is that based on Ardent?
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I never said in BC, I said the Cougar's range, and ultimately their numbers, has been HUGELY reduced. The current range is drastically less than historical range, about half I'd estimate by thematic distribution maps I've consulted. Even in BC however, one of the Cougar's strongholds, Cougars are completely absent in areas they formerly inhabited.

As a hunter, I just don't see the need for a Cougar hunt, my personal sentiment. That's not to say that if I was in a position to take it away I would, but I would certainly review it.
 
Well Ardent...........the same can be said for the grizzly.....it use to range across the entire Canadian prairies right back to the Red River in Manitoba.

Despite what is being said by a lot of agencies, the cougar is expanding back into its former ranges. They are in Saskatchewan and they are back in Manitoba...I know cause they are living right on my farm killing deer.

Not too long ago North Dakota said they were endangered, now they have opened a hunting season.

They are no more endangered than the grizzly is...............

When I was a kid they were always getting in trouble for eating ladies poodles in North Van. I have guided for them in the Hope/ Princeton area.....there are lots. There isn't much of BC that doesn't have cougars that I am aware of.........they are all over Region 1 and 2 (the Island, lower mainland, Squamish) region 3, 4, 5, and in 6, 7 and 8.

The problem with cougars is they just don't tend to hang around for people to look at too much. What people don't see they interpret as scarce. Maybe something has changed in BC that I am unaware of......if so, please fill me in.
I left BC a few years back, all I have to go on is reports from my friends and relatives out there.
 
Well I'd say it is pretty clear you know more about the issue than I, having guided for them, and for that I have to acknowledge your experience in the area. You are also quite right to compare the situation to grizzlies, though I do feel grizzlies have lost far less ground (while still having lost a ton), cougars used to cover nearly the entire North American continent south of the tundra and north of the Mexican deserts. Perhaps I shouldn't look beyond my area as we have no control there, but I still see my concerns at the species level, not the area level. I feel cougar represents trophy hunting, and for me, that is a most distasteful form of hunting. Not saying it is wrong, but for me it's bothersome. I respect the amount of money poured into places here and abroad such as Africa by trophy hunters as well and what it does for the wildlife, but I still have a hard time coming to terms with it. I suppose it's a double standard I hold, finding some animals more noble or interesting and wishing to preserve them, such as the cougar, while I'd shoot a moose happily. But it still exists for me, I see moose, deer, the game birds, the classics really I suppose you could summarize, as "hunting" animals and something like the Cougar as one to leave alone.
 
Ardent...you are quite right in that a number of species have lost a tremendous amount of ground. Unfortuantely the only way that can change with some of the species is to buy the land back from a bunch of homo sapiens and send them to the main centres (not a bad idea....wouldn't you agree?) hence letting it return to the wilds.

Damn, I would have loved to see the bison in their former numbers.....it must have been absolutely incredible. Even the elk use to range all across the US and Canadian prairies. Sadly, I think you hit the nail on the head in that we shouldn't look too far beyond our own area.....endangered only applies to the specific area you are talking about. A given species can be endangered in one area, while being abundant in another.

You are also right about cougar hunting being trophy hunting, so is grizzly and a number of others. Different strokes for different folks.............
 
Here's and older letter that I think really represents the danger of stopping the Grizzly hunt.

TIME TO LEAP INTO THE 21ST CENTURY

The Sept. 25 story "Poachers kill beloved grizzly
bear" (Sept. 25) broke my heart and made me so damn
angry!

"Mary," the grizzly bear beloved by children and
biologists, may have been killed by a poacher, but
lets face facts: A poacher is a person armed with a
gun who sets out to kill. A hunter simply has a
licence that endorses his or her "right" to kill. I
think it is high time we took that great leap into the
21st century and ban hunting altogether.

Grizzly bears are dear to many an Albertan. They are a
symbol of our wilderness and their numbers are
declining. Two provincial government committees have
recommended that the grizzly bear be listed as a
species threatened with extinction, but the Klein
government has ignored these recommendations because
of a powerful hunting lobby in this province.

It is disgraceful that a small group of individuals
who take part in this morally repugnant "sport"
dictate how Alberta's wildlife are managed.

The sad reality is even if they do catch the coward
who killed this magnificent bear. He will get nothing
more than a slap on the wrist because "it is just an
animal."

What a sad, sick world we live in.

Paul Gilbert
 
Lazy Ike............uhuh......as I said previously. Once they do away with the season, good luck getting it back!

If they had cut back to just 1 tag in each zone, they can then increase them later. But, to re-instate the season later will have to go through the provincial legislature. I'd be willing to bet that you do not see a grizzly season again in Alberta. Fish and Wildlife will take care of problem bears and that's it.....no hunting.
 
svt-40..nothing new about that. C.O.'s are the ones that trap and relocate or euthanize problem bears.

I can remember years in BC where the Conservation Officers in some areas...like Bella Coola, killed more grizzly bears than the legally licenced hunters in the area.


Look south to California. They are overrun with cougars as they have been protected for quite a few years now. No hunting allowed, but they have secretly established a few people as predator control officers that go around and kill problem cats (of course they don't broadcast this to the general public).

We are way past the point where the revenue from a handful of Alberta resident grizzly hunters means anything to the government or the general public. When it comes to grizzlies, wolves and cougars.......increasingly, politics is the issue, not sound wildlife management.
 
Sasquatch said:
I'd be willing to bet that you do not see a grizzly season again in Alberta. Fish and Wildlife will take care of problem bears and that's it.....no hunting.
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Just like up here in Northern Ontario, with our bear wardens and CO's and the MNR's fancy bear line. We have more problems and our bear encounters have gone up 500% in the last 4 years. The day the government can handle the situation properly from their offices, is the day I'll hang up my rifles permanently. They just announced a budget to increase the bear line staff but what they really needed to do was hire more CO's and give them the budget to take care of the problem. Or wait, go and re-instate the spring bear hunt, and let the hunters spend their own money and save my tax dollar so they can nab the bad guys poaching all game. Oh wait that makes sense.:rolleyes:
 
The Alberta Minister of Renewable Resources was on the radio this morning, and amid all the talk about the reasoning behind this, he mentioned that one of the greatest areas of concern was that last year's Grizz harvest was 40% female.

He stated that minimizing the number of females removed from the population was the reason for the cancellation of the fall grizzly hunt some years ago, and the shortening of the spring season more recently.

It will be interesting to see if the population survey gives a more accurate and worthwhile picture of populations and distribution.

FWIW, I don't believe the reinstatement of the hunt would have to be approved in the Legislature. This area of responsibility falls under the ministry.

However, it will be interesting to see what kind of Government and cabinet we have after the next provicial election. I persoally fear some fallout from King Ralph's antics of recent years, and some backlash from the gains the CPC made federally, despite Alberta being a conservative stronghold. The backlash I refer to may not come much in the form of more Libs in the Leg, but rather in a "leftening" of policy in the new government.
 
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