Alberta to allow 22 centrefire for big game.

Fox said:
I have to ask, would a 9mm carbine be better than a 223 with a proper bullet for moose?

Technically speaking you could always hunt big game with a rifle chambered in 25 ACP or 32 ACP as bullet diameter was the only limit yet I have never heard of anyone doing it.

So do you think this will really cause people to go out and use the wrong bullet in a stupid rifle to hunt giant animals?
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Its a lot less energy and doesnt create cavitation/implosion in the tissue. Id take a rifle round over a pistol round every time.
 
For the most part no one going to switch their old favorite big game rifle for a .22. And good share of them are too in love with there magnum long range bone braking hoots-in-kicker.
 
212driller said:
Its a lot less energy and doesnt create cavitation/implosion in the tissue. Id take a rifle round over a pistol round every time.
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Exactly, people are not going to go out and use the minimum because it is legal because they did not do that before. Nobody was chasing moose with a 25 ACP when the rule was 0.243 so why would they be going out with a 22 hornet now, just does not make sense.
 
The biggest problem with using a 22CF for big game is that the average joe cheapskate hunter will not know enough or spend enough to buy proper BG ammo with proper BG bullets. How often, even on this site has someone asked if an FMJ is good for hunting BG.

Will a 22CF work for this? Yes, I've done it myself but I loaded premium bullets. The general public cannot be trusted to do the same.
 
Fox said:
Exactly, people are not going to go out and use the minimum because it is legal because they did not do that before. Nobody was chasing moose with a 25 ACP when the rule was 0.243 so why would they be going out with a 22 hornet now, just does not make sense.
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There is a multitude of collective stupidity within society, some of it bleeds into the hunting world. You're right, dosen't make sense.
 
I don't even own a 22 CF but like the way Alberta is going with this legislation. Determining what the "general public can be trusted to do" is a slippery slope with predictable consequences, as proven by recent government over reach.

What's next, banning walking because hikers may bust into flames, especially those who fish? How about limiting the 4 weekends the average Joe has off in November to half because some folks like to control legal activity for one day a week?

I am from NS and in no way miss being under the thumb of government. In Alberta we can hunt 7 days a week, shoot on crown land without harassment, can transport our firearms like any other safe tools, are not forced to wear orange attire like convicted felons and certainly don't need to be told what bullet diameter is acceptable.

If a bad shot is made people will go home disappointed and frustrated, just like every other year. The smart ones will learn from their mistakes and the stupid ones will not, just like every other year.
 
The hunter will be the issue here, not the tool.

There are many examples (that I’m sure many of you have seen/heard of) where injured animals suffered excessively, due to a badly placed but “proper” bullet.

I had a friend that I strongly encouraged NOT to go hunting because he couldn’t get his scoped .270 to group tighter than 12 inches at 100yds. I’m sure you can guess what he went and did...

Stupidity is still stupid whether it’s with a .223 or a .338.
 
Wow, huge news!

22 ARC or Creed with 88 eldm would be a fun to play with and do more than most here understand lol

Surprised by this news, way to go Alberta, and whoever helped edumacate the powers at be!

Pathfinder...you had to wait awhile but stuck it out with your .223's, now you do more than just training and coyotes! I enjoyed the formula on big game a lot sooner by going with Grendels...only had to wait about 7 years or so lol.

And anyone talking about slow twist .223 and .22-250 40-55gr low sd typical old ammo is not understanding why this rule has changed. You want fast twist high sd stuff well north of 70 gr bullets.....the modern formula. Learn it. Don't bother talking about the old stuff. Take your chances with the old stuff. The rule didn't change because of the old formula...it changed because of the new formula, so use that.
 
Also some cool news about other changes to regs. Black bears, extended seasons, fall dog seasons. Can now keep hide or meat and leave one or the other. Kids now hunt at 10 years old. Some pretty modern changes. Get to crappy tire and grab a set, page 12 or read the online changes page. The wheels of change turn slowly here but seems they still turn haha.
 
Parts Only Canada said:
The hunter will be the issue here, not the tool.

There are many examples (that I’m sure many of you have seen/heard of) where injured animals suffered excessively, due to a badly placed but “proper” bullet.

I had a friend that I strongly encouraged NOT to go hunting because he couldn’t get his scoped .270 to group tighter than 12 inches at 100yds. I’m sure you can guess what he went and did...

Stupidity is still stupid whether it’s with a .223 or a .338.
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No doubt, if I ran into a guy afield with a .223 and asked his load and he said 77gr tmk, say no more. That guy prolly shoot circles around the next 100 guys I run into out there and he will likely kill more than they do, he understands. More hp to your shoulder more rodeos you get...linear relationship. It really gets worse moving past the 15 ft/lb recoil level.

The guys who try to compensate with existing gear and lighter weight tougher bullets like bonded or mono will get by but enjoy their tracking skills. Little wee holes and marginal internal work done. Wanna see em drop in sight then squishy heavy for cal bullets in 75-88gr range. Maybe that’s why we are now allowed to trail wounded game with leashed dogs to go with the 22 centerfire changes lol? Will be lots of lessons learned in first couple years by the dust off the ole .223 .22-250 crowd.
 
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WE are also making it easier to hunt with an Xbow. The permit is now obsolete-although I have one. All you need now is to carry a doc's note with you when hunting (Gubmint form actually). Next stop is they're gonna drop all restrictions is my guess. They should have a long time ago.
 
Considering I hunted with outlaws in Alberta who figured I was the dumb member of the family and to them a dead dear was good shooting. We took 12 deer one year and half of them got shot in the ass. Can you see what would happen with 22 CFs. Dad told stories of his uncles and such using the 22HP and how many blown up animals they shot. I figured I was getting in the small range with the 243s I got a hold of finally . Course I have to hunt from a blind as it's the only way here to see a deer.
 
KodiakHntr said:
I have. My kids have. A couple of gf's, and some buddies have with my rifles - 223's and 223AI's, and just working on finalizing an 88 ELD m load in a new 22 Creedmoor that has yet to put any bullets into animals. I fell into the 22 centerfire rabbit hole better than 17 years ago now.

Off the top of my head I've used or first hand seen used mono's - 45/50/53gr TSX, 62gr TTSX, 50gr GMX.
I've also used/seen used the 75gr Amax, 75gr HPBT, 77 TMK, and 88 ELD m, as well as the 40gr vmax, now that I think about it.
I've used rifles twisted in 1:7/8/9/12, with muzzle velocities from 3850 fps down to 2650 fps. Twist rates make a difference in bullet behavior when it hits meat. As does bullet shape and construction.

I've used (or seen used first hand) all the bullets mentioned above on game, from coyotes/whitetails/muleys/black bears/elk/and moose. I have not seen each bullet used on each species (the exception being that I have killed coyotes with all bullets mentioned.)

I've stuck/seen stuck all of the mono's listed into whitetails, and muleys from 91 yards through to 277 yards. The 45 TSX at 3500-ish impact velocity was the most decisive of the mono's - likely due to impact velocity, but the 50 GMX also bang flopped a big whitetail for my daughter, but she shot him in the throat patch and demolished his spine so that wasn't surprising.

Additional to THAT, I've stuck the 75 Amax and 88 ELD m as well as the 53 TSX and 62 TTSX into black bears, from 2 yards out to 486 yards.

With whitetails and muley's, I've shot/seen shot the 75 Amax/HPBT, 77 TMK, and 88 ELD m from 51 yards to 494
yards.
I've killed 3 bull moose in three years with the 88 ELD m, as well as a bull elk. 109 yards on the elk, 151/176/352 yards on the mooses.

The 88 ELD m and 77 TMK aren't even a part of the same discussion when it comes to killing stuff, as the rest of the bullets mentioned. The 75 Amax is a murderous bullet, but the 88 ELD m and 77 TMK are prolific serial killers and there is no end in sight.

Fast twist rates coupled with long, heavy for caliber bullets kill way outside of what a person would expect, and truly has to be seen first hand to understand. Twist rates matter, bullet shape and bullet construction matter. In a larger caliber rifle it is tough to pick the wrong bullet and not get the results that Joe Average wants, in a small caliber rifle it is much easier to get it wrong.

I switched from using 150gr TTSX's from a favorite 280AI as my primary moose rifle to the 88 ELD m in a matching rifle purely because I was getting more damage to organs from the 88, and stuff was dying faster and covering less ground. In fact after using the first one, I have had 3 more rifles built specifically around the 88 ELD m for myself and a buddy, and all are primarily used as killing rifles.

I still use the same bullet placement with the 88's as I was with the TSX/TTSX from my 280AI, 7wsm, or 300 Ultra. I'm still breaking shoulders. Only differences are that now I'm not getting a bullet channel through the ham and finding a bullet under the hide on the back leg on hard quartering in shots like was common with the 300 Ultra and TSX's, and stuff isn't still breathing when I walk up to it after it had an 88 ELD m or 77 TMK stuck in the front half - like was common with anything shot with a Barnes mono.
None of the animals shot with the mouse rifle have made it out of sight since I switched over to the 88/77. There is no guessing on where the bullet landed after the trigger was squeezed because now I see the fur ripple when the bullet lands.

And I realize that this is likely to torque a lot of folks up to read, so by all means use what makes you happiest and fills you with the most confidence when you are hunting. I know I do.
Bullets matter, and picking the right ones always helps, no matter what you are planning on sticking them into.
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"I switched from using 150gr TTSX's from a favorite 280AI as my primary moose rifle to the 88 ELD m in a matching rifle purely because I was getting more damage to organs from the 88, and stuff was dying faster and covering less ground. In fact after using the first one, I have had 3 more rifles built specifically around the 88 ELD m for myself and a buddy, and all are primarily used as killing rifles."

I find this very interesting. thanks for sharing. What cal did you say you were using for the 88eldm? I think I missed it.
Lots of guys in the states are really enjoying the 22 CM and saying basically same as most on here.

Ive seen a ton of guys with piss poor shots from 7-300mags do a bunch of chasing due to horrible shots weather its skill or recoil.
 
migrant hunter said:
My original question was for people who had actual experience with. 22 ceterfire on big game.
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While we were wrapping up our season around germansen I seen a decent sized bull drop like he was hit by lighting from a 22-250. No idea of bullet used, neck shot from 75-100 yards maybe. Dead before it hit the ground
 
s3xspert11 said:
"I switched from using 150gr TTSX's from a favorite 280AI as my primary moose rifle to the 88 ELD m in a matching rifle purely because I was getting more damage to organs from the 88, and stuff was dying faster and covering less ground. In fact after using the first one, I have had 3 more rifles built specifically around the 88 ELD m for myself and a buddy, and all are primarily used as killing rifles."

I find this very interesting. thanks for sharing. What cal did you say you were using for the 88eldm? I think I missed it.
Lots of guys in the states are really enjoying the 22 CM and saying basically same as most on here.

Ive seen a ton of guys with piss poor shots from 7-300mags do a bunch of chasing due to horrible shots weather its skill or recoil.
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I have had 3 1:7 twist 223AI’s built specifically to shoot 88 ELD m’s, and a 22 Creedmoor as well, same bullet.
 
If used with the correct bullet combinations they are deadly. Fast twist with a heavy well constructed bullet. Respect the range along with shooter ability. Poor results are from poor planning imo.
 
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