all you wanted to know about different break action shotgun action types

canvasback said:
Cat this is a great thread you started with real potential as a repository of good information for people trying to learn about this stuff. As VictoryXC suggested, when time permits a few more pics of each action from different angles would be good. As well, any of us with other action types (and perhaps forends, ejectors styles etc.) should be throwing up some photos and explanatory notes. Brian, I'm talking to you. LOL
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I will have to get the camera charged up!!
 
I agree this is a good thread, I snapped some pictures of some different styles of actions I have

First is a Purdey style thumb release on a 12 gauge hammer gun by Luckman

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Next is a side lever 10 gauge sold by WG Rawbone Toronto and made by Greener

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This one is a thumb release also made by Rentte in Paris a pair of 20 gauge rifles (sorry i know this is a shotgun form)

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Here are a couple. The first gun is another example of a Jones Rotary underlever opening system. It has a round locking lug that both pulls down on the barrels as well as locking the barrels tight to the action. The gun is a Joseph Lang damascus hammer gun from 1873 with extractors and has the old style wedge that locks the forearm to the barrels. I am thinking about starting another thread on this gun detailing the unexpected pitfalls that one can encounter when having a gun restored.




The second gun has been featured in another thread. It is a Darne sliding breech action with ejectors. The fired shells basically fall over the side when the action is slid back. You pull the opening lever up and slide back in one motion. The stock is one piece.

 
WR1894 said:
I agree this is a good thread, I snapped some pictures of some different styles of actions I have





This one is a thumb release also made by Rentte in Paris a pair of 20 gauge rifles (sorry i know this is a shotgun form)

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Well, now, look at that , ANOTHER bar in wood!:cool:
Cat
 
I find it interesting that two out of the three three bar in wood guns I have now seen ( two English and the french above) have barrel wedges in the for ends to attach them!
here are two other methods , on the left is a splinter for end with an Anson and release, and a beavertail style for end from my Pedersoli hammer double with a Deeley or Hacket style under latch.
Cat
 
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I have also had people ask me and seen the question asked on the 'net about other guns concerning the little levers on side locks.
This is a feature called a thumb screw for what is termed a hand detachable lock.
Instead of using a screw driver to take out the screw holding the locks, one simply turns the little screw out by hand so the locks can be taken out for inspection and cleaning, etc.:)
There is typically only one screw because the front is held in by a little lip that slides into the action recess.
Cat
 
catnthehatt said:
I find it interesting that two out of the three three bar in wood guns I have now seen ( two English and the french above) have barrel wedges in the for ends to attach them!
here are two other methods , on the left is a splinter for end with an Anson and Deeley release, and a beavertail style for end from my Pedersoli hammer double with a Hacket style under latch.
Cat
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That's right, Cat!

While we're on the topic of forend styles, the traditional style is known as an escutcheon and pin - the escutcheon being the metal plate with a slot for the pin located on both sides of the forend. The escutcheon and pin, the barrel straps, the trigger guard and tang, and any other miscellaneous parts (such as the metal forend tip on your Anson pushrod example) constitute what is known as the "furniture". Furniture on a classic gun, therefore, is made of brass or steel.
 
straightshooter said:
That's right, Cat!

While we're on the topic of forend styles, the traditional style is known as an escutcheon and pin - the escutcheon being the metal plate with a slot for the pin located on both sides of the forend. The escutcheon and pin, the barrel straps, the trigger guard and tang, and any other miscellaneous parts (such as the metal forend tip on your Anson pushrod example) constitute what is known as the "furniture". Furniture on a classic gun, therefore, is made of brass or steel.
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I realize that , at one time I built custom plains style rifles and all were attached with escutcheons- the danged computer at home kept putting up another word when I tried to type it in!
Basically speaking for those wondering , ( for gunsmithing , anyway) an escutcheon protects the wood by bearing on the wedge , or tenon.:)

I got into a very spirited conversation a while back with a guy when I mentioned the brass mounted furniture on his TC Hawken and was told " it's not called that":confused:
Cat
 
straightshooter said:
That's right, Cat!

While we're on the topic of forend styles, the traditional style is known as an escutcheon and pin - the escutcheon being the metal plate with a slot for the pin located on both sides of the forend. The escutcheon and pin, the barrel straps, the trigger guard and tang, and any other miscellaneous parts (such as the metal forend tip on your Anson pushrod example) constitute what is known as the "furniture". Furniture on a classic gun, therefore, is made of brass or steel.
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Looking at this picture, I have several shotguns with both types of for end release, but I have never figured out - or wondered about it , if one is stronger than the other.
Anybody have any ideas?
Cat
 
I won't have time to take the right photos till the weekend but while most of mine are fairly standard A & N boxlocks or sidelocks, I will be posting pics of the MF Ideal opening system as well as a schematic of how that action works (very unusual) as well as a unique second bite on a couple of my Piepers.

If this thread develops as I hope, as an educational repository of detailed information on how different break action shotguns (and rifles) work, as well as a source for clear and concise definitions of various terms used to describe parts of break action guns, perhaps we might ask the mods to make it a sticky.
 
canvasback said:
I won't have time to take the right photos till the weekend but while most of mine are fairly standard A & N boxlocks or sidelocks, I will be posting pics of the MF Ideal opening system as well as a schematic of how that action works (very unusual) as well as a unique second bite on a couple of my Piepers.

If this thread develops as I hope, as an educational repository of detailed information on how different break action shotguns (and rifles) work, as well as a source for clear and concise definitions of various terms used to describe parts of break action guns, perhaps we might ask the mods to make it a sticky.
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I left a PM for them, maybe I'll send another one.:)
I started the thread with just those same hopes, there are so many variations out there it is mind boggling!

When sdvc gets back to town I'll get some pictures of his very unique, nickle plated W&C Scott, with its patented Sherman latch system.
That is a very hefty 10 gauge that was more than likely used for salt water waterfowl.:)
Cat
 
canvasback said:
I won't have time to take the right photos till the weekend but while most of mine are fairly standard A & N boxlocks or sidelocks, I will be posting pics of the MF Ideal opening system as well as a schematic of how that action works (very unusual) as well as a unique second bite on a couple of my Piepers.

If this thread develops as I hope, as an educational repository of detailed information on how different break action shotguns (and rifles) work, as well as a source for clear and concise definitions of various terms used to describe parts of break action guns, perhaps we might ask the mods to make it a sticky.
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To add to the above, I've found the Hallowell & Co. Illustrated Firearms Dictionary http://www.hallowellco.com/abbrevia.htm) to be a good resource in this regard.
 
Here is another bar in wood for you, Cat. A James Purdey 16 bore that is #2 of a pair completed for the Baron Anthony Rothschild in 1877. It has a fairly unusual push forward underlever and an Anson forend release.



Here is a typical back action, a Williamson and Son 16 bore hammergun.

This is a bit different style of back action. A round action 12 bore made by William Baker for H.E. Akrill. Probably my favorite of all my SxS.
Here is a photo of the Baker patent sidelocks. The metal to metal fit on the Akrill makes it difficult to see the outline of where the sideplate and action come together.
 
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So is the Purdey a full bar in wood I wonder, or a partial, and just what constitutes a bar in wood anyway?
the reason I ponder this is the fact that the hinge on the Purdey is exposed !:confused:
Cat
 
Cat, the bar in wood description refers to the action bars, not the hinge pin, but I see what you are talking about. In my reference books they are both described as bar in wood, but photos with the hinge pin covered are described as having the bar in wood extended to cover the hinge pin. I didn't see an actual name for it but there may be one. The Purdey letter on this one refers to it as a bar in wood. By the dates of the bar in wood guns it seems like the early ones were more likely to have the extended wood. I suspect that it was partly related to conversions from muzzle loader to hinge action. A lot of very fine muzzle loaders were converted, and on those the existing stock was easily inletted to hide the added hinge pin. The style may have carried over to early hinge break guns.
WR1894, those Rentte are outstanding. Not just bar in wood, but an "island" bar in wood. I don't recall seeing that before.
 
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The Jones action has a reputation for great strength. The barrels are pulled down against the water table hard. Not as convenient as the top snap which was more popular.
 
North of 58 said:
Cat, the bar in wood description refers to the action bars, not the hinge pin, but I see what you are talking about. In my reference books they are both described as bar in wood, but photos with the hinge pin covered are described as having the bar in wood extended to cover the hinge pin. I didn't see an actual name for it but there may be one. The Purdey letter on this one refers to it as a bar in wood.
WR1894, those Rentte are outstanding. Not just bar in wood, but an "island" bar in wood. I don't recall seeing that before.
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I did some checking last night and this morning in my books and on the 'net, and you are very correct, the wood does not necessarily have to extend right out to the knuckle as long as the bar itself is in the wood.
I also saw another Purdey bar in wood on the James Julia site that has an unusual "Dawe action" as it is called where the lever is under the trigger guard like a Farquarson rifle. Is yours described as a Dawe action as well? The under lever on the one I saw is shaped differently, not that it matters much!:)
Cat
 
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