Am I about to make the worse decision ever? Do I do it? All for one?
- Thread starter 23/4there
- Start date
- Location
- Southeastern Michigan
If you are thinking bear protection I would keep what you have and use the shotty! Any handgun is a poor second to a 12 gauge when comes to bears. Regards, Richard
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Keep the shotgun for when you can carry it, and get a .44 or similar revolver to replace the Glock. Right now P&D have a Blackhawk in .45 Colt for $499.00, which when handloaded is certainly the equal of a .44 and might be a shade better with the right handload. If you haven't solved the problem with 6 rounds the speed of the reload won't matter.
- Location
- Southeastern Michigan
Boy, am I naive! I thought there were only black bears around Campbell River. A long time ago I read an article on bears by Charles Karwan, USAMA graduate and firearm authority. His advice was to buy a 10mm and try to shoot the bear's neck out; Charles Karwan feels handguns are a poor tool against bears and I agree. Regards, Richard
Boomer I have a different opinion on the speed of a reload...
Now I totally agree on the 45 Colt having more power than a 44mag; I have 2 s/s 5 1/2" Ruger Bisley Vaquero's in 45 Colt and load up to 345gr bullets in them.
Awesome power and extremely accurate I can hit (when I do my part) an 8" X 10" sheet of paper everytime @ 100 yards with these guns and my loads.
I had my Bisley's on my ATC permit for several years but found I hardly ever took them out due to being limited to 6 rounds and not being able to reload quickly.
I have been in the middle of 5 different black bears all of them being within 10 - 50 yards of me I want more than 6 rounds at my disposal.
Another issue is loading and unloading everytime you get out or back into the vehicle... Just to slow for me...
I have also read years ago about a game control officer in the States that used a 45 Colt Blackhawk and commented on a few times his partner with the rifle/shotgun stopped the bear after he had shot his 6 bullets and didn't have a chance to reload.
Yes they are awesome, affordable, accurate, strong guns but if I was going to recommend a 44mag/45 Colt that I was going to depend my life on it would be a bullet proof Ruger Redhawk and I would get Gunnar @ Armco or Barry @ Bits & Pieces to shorten it to exactly the length that I wanted.
Guys remember in many cases people that work in the bush have so much equipment with them or whatever other reason can't take a shotgun/rifle.
edit to add; just a side note depending on weather or where I am working and how long I am in the bush I carry up to 4 speed loaders...
Now I totally agree on the 45 Colt having more power than a 44mag; I have 2 s/s 5 1/2" Ruger Bisley Vaquero's in 45 Colt and load up to 345gr bullets in them.
Awesome power and extremely accurate I can hit (when I do my part) an 8" X 10" sheet of paper everytime @ 100 yards with these guns and my loads.
I had my Bisley's on my ATC permit for several years but found I hardly ever took them out due to being limited to 6 rounds and not being able to reload quickly.
I have been in the middle of 5 different black bears all of them being within 10 - 50 yards of me I want more than 6 rounds at my disposal.
Another issue is loading and unloading everytime you get out or back into the vehicle... Just to slow for me...
I have also read years ago about a game control officer in the States that used a 45 Colt Blackhawk and commented on a few times his partner with the rifle/shotgun stopped the bear after he had shot his 6 bullets and didn't have a chance to reload.
Yes they are awesome, affordable, accurate, strong guns but if I was going to recommend a 44mag/45 Colt that I was going to depend my life on it would be a bullet proof Ruger Redhawk and I would get Gunnar @ Armco or Barry @ Bits & Pieces to shorten it to exactly the length that I wanted.
Guys remember in many cases people that work in the bush have so much equipment with them or whatever other reason can't take a shotgun/rifle.
edit to add; just a side note depending on weather or where I am working and how long I am in the bush I carry up to 4 speed loaders...
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Interesting observations CC.
With respect to the bear that was hit with 6 rounds of .45 Colt from a Blackhawk, from what I've seen of how game reacts to gunfire, it is unlikely that the game control officer you mentioned would of been unable to reload to finish the job, if his hits were good. Curious though, why he would of opted for the revolver when a rifle was available.
Still, I have trouble finding an argument against a Redhawk or Super Redhawk suitably shortened. I shot a Super earlier in the year and found I didn’t care for the rubber grips, preferring the grip found on the standard Redhawk. These guns are pretty big, and I prefer the compactness and recoil management of a short SA.
Climbing in and out of vehicles isn't an issue when I carry as I'm often on foot and along way from a road, or at least a road of any consequence. My bear guns are generally loaded 24/7.
With respect to the bear that was hit with 6 rounds of .45 Colt from a Blackhawk, from what I've seen of how game reacts to gunfire, it is unlikely that the game control officer you mentioned would of been unable to reload to finish the job, if his hits were good. Curious though, why he would of opted for the revolver when a rifle was available.
Still, I have trouble finding an argument against a Redhawk or Super Redhawk suitably shortened. I shot a Super earlier in the year and found I didn’t care for the rubber grips, preferring the grip found on the standard Redhawk. These guns are pretty big, and I prefer the compactness and recoil management of a short SA.
Climbing in and out of vehicles isn't an issue when I carry as I'm often on foot and along way from a road, or at least a road of any consequence. My bear guns are generally loaded 24/7.
He's at work in the bush, not under fire in the army
By all means, carry a sidearm. Anywhere you can press out with a pistol, you can swing a long gun. Shotguns can be had in 8.5" barrels and up now, so there's no excuse.
LEO and armoured guards are permitted the use of long guns. LE usually sport theirs in the vehicle. I know Securicor here in Calgary(rumoured to be nation wide) are not permitted shotguns in the trucks for city routes due to an incident where two employees were shooting road signs(location unknown). In either case, they have access to long guns, but don't sling them. Slinging a long gun for LE on a traffic stop is impractical. Slinging a long gun for armoured car guards would be an excellent idea. This is not practice for two reasons. The companies are too cheap to properly train its employees to a competent level and there's no way the governing bodies would permit such actions due to public reaction.
I still stand the course. Only a fool runs a sidearm alone. Both Mil and LE issue rifles to their guys who deal with a known hostile situation. Same policy applies here. Carry the sidearm for unexpected trouble but resort to the long gun if/when the situation permits.
23/4there,
You're telling me you travel on terrain that is more than vertical?? 110% of 90' is 99' of slope. So you're climbing up an overhang?? In any case, a solid sling will solve the problem. In extreme cases, store the long gun in/on your pack and run with the pistol only. I'm not saying don't get the .44, I'm saying don't put all your eggs in one basket.
TDC
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TDC,
Actually a 100% = 45 degrees or a 1:1 ratio
So for every unit of distance you travel, you rise a unit.
Ex. one foot of of horizontal distance = one foot of rise in elevation
So if I travelled 90 feet @ 110%, then I would have gained 99 feet of elevation.
But hey what do I know? I only do this for a living. Thanks for trying to make me look stupid.
A .44 mag would be just fine in my basket, as well as eggs.
Let's be honest I'm not going to carry around my shotgun all day. If I could everyone would be doing it and I would have no need for the ATC (But don't tell the CFC that). So to keep it simple and cheap, I believe the .44mag is the way to go.
It's not a choice of firearm that is my concern, its the pawning of my first ever guns to afford the BFG. But it seems the majority has sided against the sale.
I just wanted to add, I will get another shotgun. I'm not super happy with the one I have and I am itching for a bigger handgun now.
Actually a 100% = 45 degrees or a 1:1 ratio
So for every unit of distance you travel, you rise a unit.
Ex. one foot of of horizontal distance = one foot of rise in elevation
So if I travelled 90 feet @ 110%, then I would have gained 99 feet of elevation.
But hey what do I know? I only do this for a living. Thanks for trying to make me look stupid.
A .44 mag would be just fine in my basket, as well as eggs.
Let's be honest I'm not going to carry around my shotgun all day. If I could everyone would be doing it and I would have no need for the ATC (But don't tell the CFC that). So to keep it simple and cheap, I believe the .44mag is the way to go.
It's not a choice of firearm that is my concern, its the pawning of my first ever guns to afford the BFG. But it seems the majority has sided against the sale.
I just wanted to add, I will get another shotgun. I'm not super happy with the one I have and I am itching for a bigger handgun now.
Well if they aren't going to issue new ATC for semi-autos I would keep the Glock till your ATC expires.
I have to disagree with TDC. There are lots of reasons to carry a handgun when a shotgun is too big, too heavy, or even too much power. Wolves wouldn't require a shotgun nor would some cats. Why carry a big shotgun if you don't have to? Unless you work for the CFO? Carrying a shotgun with 4+1 shells might not be good enough versus a pack of wolves.
Take advantage of the law before they take away the law. Keep your handguns.
And like I said before check out some 45-08 Armco if you reload. They might be OK in your Glock. Does the Glock in 45ACP have a fully supported chamber?
Fudd
It's Wednesday today and due to staffing issues probably under funding the CFO will not answer any calls on Wednesday.
23/4 semi-auto's have been technically banned since the late summer if you sqeezed in your renewal before they were you are one of the lucky ones.
If they are now allowing us to have semi-auto's again it is because people like me have been pushing this issue with the Surrey office instead of sitting on the side lines accepting these regulations made by Lieberal RCMP officers with an aganda to ban handguns in Canada.
When you call ask why we are also being limited too only 2 handguns now as well, I am curious what answer they will give you.
For the Surrey office call 1-800-731-4000 ext 9530...
23/4 semi-auto's have been technically banned since the late summer if you sqeezed in your renewal before they were you are one of the lucky ones.
If they are now allowing us to have semi-auto's again it is because people like me have been pushing this issue with the Surrey office instead of sitting on the side lines accepting these regulations made by Lieberal RCMP officers with an aganda to ban handguns in Canada.
When you call ask why we are also being limited too only 2 handguns now as well, I am curious what answer they will give you.
For the Surrey office call 1-800-731-4000 ext 9530...
very, very cool and heroic tacti-speak.
the dude is a timber tramp, managing forests in south-coastal British Columbia. He isn't escorting George Bush through Fallujah.
Been a while since I've been in the Homathko, but I don;t recall any running gun battles that involved fighting our way back to our rifles. I do recall lots of terrain that nobody in their right mind would willingly pack a long gun along with all the work gear, work being why you are there in the first place.
your amount of experience in mountainous terrain and killing bears is apparent
actually, i am not 12.6'd, due to my own stupidity.
check out http://bitsofpieces.com/BPGallery/album18
that is my old restricted-only M29. Just find a 6"+ 29/629 or redhawk and get Barry to chop it to 106mm, it will still fit in a 4" holster.
