Am I asking too much?

[Slowbalt]

Can't say I am not a bit disappointed. I feel the rifle has little consistency. It will place two or three groups that are very pleasing, and then seems to throw them all over the place for the next two mags or so. This is with SK Rifle Match. So I went and did some ammo testing with what I had on hand (50m, indoors so wind in an non issue, rifle is a Tikka T1x 16in, Magpul bipod with a rear bag, scope is a Vortex Venom (at 25x), target is 5mm grid squares, 5 rounds per square, 5 rounds in the dirt after changing type (to offset the lube difference at least a bit)). Am I just asking too much? I feel like a quality rifle should have much more consistency...

 

[sk8snwmx]

Looks about right... looks like yours likes the Eley stuff or SK RM.. I would look for some Eley Tenex and Center-X and give those 2x a go!

 

[Buck1950]

I agree with sk8, you've got a lot of 0.5" groups with the SKRM & a bit of Eley. Most of the ammo you tested is 'low-grade' IMO; I have lots of that for my 'low-end' rifles but my CZ & even B22 gets the SK+ or better. And the CCI-SV seemed to do OK for you too. It's my go-to for 'form practice' cause it usually gets 1/2 - 3/4" for most of my rifles.
If you're looking for better numbers sk8 has the answer - the Tenex of Center-X. You've made a great start in finding the ammo your rifle likes, so maybe try to find more of the Lot #s that worked well. The 'not-so-good' can go for 'seasoning'.

 

[FLHTCUI]

Some of that can be you the shooter.
Different trigger pressure and or wrist grip....
Rob

 

[Janeau]

The gun is often way better than the shooter. Are you a consistent .250 group and lower shooter ? Can you shoot 248/250 on an IBS target ?

You expectation should match your skills set. If you are sure you are good to go, try different ammo, this can maybe shrink you group a bit. A fix for vertical is a tuner..if you spend the time to find first the best ammo for your gun, and then learn the method to tune.

A tuner won’t fix a shooter’s errors on the bench. Try shooting from a hard front rest instead of a bipod. This can also help a bit.

If you can, have a good competition shooter look at your setup and how you shoot. This help a lot of shooters that do not realize some minor ‘qirck’ with equipment or method.

Good luck..remember it’s all about fun

 

[super7]

Try some sk biathlon sport. Mine shot tight groups with it.

 

[Walterfisher]

The T1X comes from the factory with a wedge under the barrel. The wedge has a pressure point that contacts the barrel. Take that Eley Team that you have. Loosen the action screws and start at about 15 in/lbs of torque and work your way up in 2.5 in/lb increments shooting at least 2 five shot groups as you go. You will find a sweet spot when the group size shows you.
Something like the picture below - shot at 50 m outdooors.

Oh, and adjust the trigger if you haven't already. The stock trigger will usually go down to about 20 ounces before you get bumpfires.

One of my T1Xs likes 30 in/lbs apparently.

 

[Biologist]

The bipod and squeezing the rear bag may be the issue. As Janeau mentioned, maybe try a heavy benchrest front rest. This will be used to do all the elevation and windage adjustments. For the rear bag, use a rabbit ear bag but do not squeeze the ears - let the rifle free recoil as much as it wants to. Steady the rear bag, but don't squeeze it for elevation like you have to when using a bipod. Experiment with cheek and shoulder pressure.

In rimfire that recoil becomes significant well before the round leaves the muzzle, so if that recoil management is not perfectly the same every time, the groups will open. For example, too much cheek pressure down into the bag will interfere with the recoil, changing it slightly every time, which can lead to more open groups.

 

[Biologist]

The T1X comes from the factory with a wedge under the barrel. The wedge has a pressure point that contacts the barrel. Take that Eley Team that you have. Loosen the action screws and start at about 15 in/lbs of torque and work your way up in 2.5 in/lb increments shooting at least 2 five shot groups as you go. You will find a sweet spot when the group size shows you.
Something like the picture below - shot at 50 m outdooors.

One of my T1Xs likes 30 in/lbs apparently.

I have not seen or used a Tikka T1X, so I did not know about the wedge under the barrel, but this is very interesting. There are rimfire designs which have used various types of pressure points to tune the barrel harmonics. My CZ 452 Lux has a barrel lug about 4 inches forward of the action, with a barrel lug screw. The rifle is super sensitive to the torque on this screw. So just like you said, I have to torque it in small increments to find the sweet spot. It requires alot of work and ammo, but its worth it to find it. The torque also greatly affects the point of impact, which means that barrel is somewhat droopy and is being raised and lowed by the stock forearm pressure from that barrel lug screw.

I made the mistake of trying to free-float this CZ 452 Lux's barrel. I sanded out the barrel channel - huge mistake! The factory had apparently contoured the barrel channel precisely to provide a pressure point in the correct area. The accuracy was destroyed. Through trial and error I have inserted shims in various places in the barrel channel, and epoxy bedded the barrel lug, and I think I recovered the accuracy.

So just goes to show, some rimfires are designed with that specific pressure point underneath the barrel, and torque on screws can be used to tune it. Very thin shims (e.g. beer can aluminum) or thicker shims using e.g. cork sheet, or bread bag tabs, can be used if needed to increase the pressure point effect. Rubber cement is one way to glue in a shim that is easily removed. Or simple scotch tape can also work.

 

[Mystic Precision]

I would properly bed the action and free float the barrel.

It has potential but irregularities are beyond what the ammo is guilty of alone.

Check for something loose.. or stressed/bent (ie bad bedding). Sand bags can resolve issues with inconsistent bipods too.

Let us know how it progresses

Jerry

 

[Walterfisher]

It is a simple matter to free float the barrel. The barrel wedge is held in by 1 screw. Bedding this action in the factory stock will likely not show much improvement.
Why do I say that? I have tried these rifles pillar bedded, fully bedded and skim bedded. None shot better than adjusting the action with the factory pressure point installed.

 

[kamlooky]

Too much java doesn’t help tight groups.

 

[Slowbalt]

Can't really quote you all, but will address most:

Ammo: Will try some more, bit of a bummer as I A: have a bunch of SK as most of my other rifles LOVE it, and B: rimfire ammo availability these days leaves a lot to be desired.

Shooter: I am no world renowned expert, this is a given. However I have shot much better, many many times, with many many rifles. Not in any way trying to tote my own horn but I have come to expect better.

Action screws torque: I torqued them both at 35-40 lb/in (can't remember off the top of my head). Will test some more and see what changes.

Trigger: Adjusted down to 2.25-2.5 lb. Not a Timney or a Kidd, but still pretty clean.

Bipod/bags: Not in love with that bipod that's for sure. More of a budget thing. Will try some proper bags.

Stock: Have an MDT XRS on the way (ETA somewhere next week). Can't wait to try it.

Coffee: Not a big drinker, so doubtful. Still, will try going "sober" next time.

 

[grauhanen]

The usual causes of poor results is the rifle and shooting set up, the shooter, the conditions (i.e. wind), or the ammo. Shooting indoors eliminates one of those causes.

With regard to the rifle, until further testing shows otherwise, assume it has a barrel that's average for a T1X. What can be done to help is a trigger spring swap that will reduce the pull weight to something more desirable for shooting for best results. (You may not wish to lighten the trigger too much if the rifle is also used for hunting.)

As noted by others, the bipod may not be helping or the technique used with it may be inconsistent. Try sand bags as suggested above.

While some of the ammos tested can't be counted on for acceptable results, some good results were obtained with some of the better varieties. Tellingly, no consistently good results were achieved with any of the better ammos.

 

[horseman2]

Since a number of different brands in various grades were tested, one area of concern might be the variation in bullet lubes.

After cleaning, it may take a number of rounds to re-coat the bore with the lube used in that particular bullet.

The Norma is made by RWS so tests of one can follow the other. Eley and the Remington Eley Match will lay down the same lube. SK and Lapua might use the same lube.

Which lot number of Remington Eley Match did you use?

With the various ammunition, was any difficulty experienced closing the bolt?

 

[Slowbalt]

Since a number of different brands in various grades were tested, one area of concern might be the variation in bullet lubes.

After cleaning, it may take a number of rounds to re-coat the bore with the lube used in that particular bullet.

The Norma is made by RWS so tests of one can follow the other. Eley and the Remington Eley Match will lay down the same lube. SK and Lapua might use the same lube.

Which lot number of Remington Eley Match did you use?

With the various ammunition, was any difficulty experienced closing the bolt?

This was taken into consideration, similar lubes were used in groups rather than randomly, and between each test, 5 rounds were sent into the dirt to "recoat" the bore. Perfect it is not, but I wanted to account for it somehow.

Unknown about the lot #, as that was my last (and only) box and it went into the trash once emptied.

None at all. This is one reason I preferred the Tikka over the CZ with a match chamber (I dislike the "hard-to-closeness").