Am I broken? Scope Levelling Help...

[madashell]

Are you referring to a specific TPS ring model ?

I will admit they make excellent rings for what they charge. Many seem to think they are a budget ring but that's not the case at all.

I switched to TPS rings where possible. They're designed to eliminate this frustration.

 

[bibatoad]

The best way to level a scope with out tools is just use your eye, have been doing it for years. Mount in a cradle and go from there.

 

[Maple57]

I’m familiar enough with Litz and have gone down the rabbit hole on some of his publicly available info and that of others in his field. And sure while you can still have a useable rifle when the reticle isn’t in line with the bore axis, you can’t argue that particularly when using canted rings/bases, the reticle needs to be plumb to the bore axis.

The argument for needed the reticle plumb to the bore is that orherwise, when you dial your come ups to go from say 100 yard zero to distance X, you’ll also have an impact in windage (assuming 0 wind) because of the angular offset of the bore relative to the plumb line of the reticle by the time you true up your reticle. Ie because the reticle isn’t plumb to the axis you’ll see changes in the L/R impact of the bullet as you move out in range without even making any adjustments to the windage turret. Sure you can build your DOPE once you’ve shot at various distances and know what that windage error is at various distances, but then again why allow that to be a variable on top of already having to read wind when the solution is simply to get the reticle plumb to the bore?

If you turned the rifle a full 90 degrees, the bullet would hit to the side only the difference between the center of bore and the center of the sight. That remains constant regardless of the distance.

When obsessing about less than a degree or two of rotation, you are talking about maybe 0.020" at 100 yards or inside a click. Again, it remains constant forever.

The only thing that matters is that the scope is level when fired. The rest is simply anal retentiveness or a lack of understanding of the geometry.

As an example, think about those old sniper rifles where the scope was off to the left. Enfields and Garands were like that. If it worked in that extreme, it will work if leveled to the eye.

Zero this rifle so the point of impact is to the right of the point of aim equal to the scope and bore distance and it will always hit that way. If a guy was dumb and zeroed this Garand perfectly, it would be cross eyed and the impact would work its way toe the left as distance increased beyond his zero. So if he was to zero at longer ranges, again the error would be meaningless on either side of his zero distance.

In a modern rifle, with the scope above the bore a slight angle is meaningless.

A really clever guy might even use such canting to crudely compensate for spin drift.

 

[supernova]

Are you referring to a specific TPS ring model ?

I will admit they make excellent rings for what they charge. Many seem to think they are a budget ring but that's not the case at all.

Yes, I use the TSR rings. I agree, the price is very disproportionate to quality. I used to use Nightforce rings but after trying TPS I haven't bought a set of NF.

 

[Da Jimmer]

Thanks for the useful input... ill update when I get it done. And this is a precision rifle.... to learn long range, so it will be straight. Not "close enough"....

 

[madashell]

Yes, I figured you were referring to the TSR's.

I'd put those up against the Badger, ATRS, Nightforce etc. crowd having owned them all and more. Really good rings for what they change. Ship to Canada if I remember correctly and great customer service as well.

Yes, I use the TSR rings. I agree, the price is very disproportionate to quality. I used to use Nightforce rings but after trying TPS I haven't bought a set of NF.

 

[Dogleg]

Whether the scope or rifle is level is meaningless if the reticle isn't true to it's adjustments. That's a long way from a sure bet. The record may even show that that was where the spiral into madness began.

If you can take your rig and a tall target and place groups perfectly above each other with a couple cranks worth of turret adjustment you'll do OK. If you can't, than the levels aren't worth the air in the bubble.

 

[Lead hammer]

I need to get a 20 moa rail anyway, use my existing one to make an adjustable levelling jig to do turret tests on, be much easier. Just clamp to my sturdy shooting bench and crank away.

 

[SwifTst]

I use a wheeler kit. My rings on my Tikka have six screws per ring. Generally I tighten up one ring first and in a star pattern. But I do it very slowly, each screw only gets slightly more tightened at a time. Once one ring is tightened up and the scope is perfectly level, I move on to the other. It takes time and patience but with practice it works

 

[coleman1495]

I’m familiar enough with Litz and have gone down the rabbit hole on some of his publicly available info and that of others in his field. And sure while you can still have a useable rifle when the reticle isn’t in line with the bore axis, you can’t argue that particularly when using canted rings/bases, the reticle needs to be plumb to the bore axis.

The argument for needed the reticle plumb to the bore is that orherwise, when you dial your come ups to go from say 100 yard zero to distance X, you’ll also have an impact in windage (assuming 0 wind) because of the angular offset of the bore relative to the plumb line of the reticle by the time you true up your reticle. Ie because the reticle isn’t plumb to the axis you’ll see changes in the L/R impact of the bullet as you move out in range without even making any adjustments to the windage turret. Sure you can build your DOPE once you’ve shot at various distances and know what that windage error is at various distances, but then again why allow that to be a variable on top of already having to read wind when the solution is simply to get the reticle plumb to the bore?

I would recommend that you read chapter 9 in Applied Ballistics For Long Range Shooting. More specifically page 148.

What Litz states contradicts what you are saying.

 

[coleman1495]

I’m familiar enough with Litz and have gone down the rabbit hole on some of his publicly available info and that of others in his field. And sure while you can still have a useable rifle when the reticle isn’t in line with the bore axis, you can’t argue that particularly when using canted rings/bases, the reticle needs to be plumb to the bore axis.

The argument for needed the reticle plumb to the bore is that orherwise, when you dial your come ups to go from say 100 yard zero to distance X, you’ll also have an impact in windage (assuming 0 wind) because of the angular offset of the bore relative to the plumb line of the reticle by the time you true up your reticle. Ie because the reticle isn’t plumb to the axis you’ll see changes in the L/R impact of the bullet as you move out in range without even making any adjustments to the windage turret. Sure you can build your DOPE once you’ve shot at various distances and know what that windage error is at various distances, but then again why allow that to be a variable on top of already having to read wind when the solution is simply to get the reticle plumb to the bore?

I recommend that you read chapter 9 in Applied Ballistics For Long Range Shooting. More specifically page 148.

What Litz states contradicts what you are saying.