N320 is an excellent powder, nice and clean burning. But it can be more difficult to find and it is most certainly more expensive than most.
Amateur reloader
- Thread starter Morningwud
- Start date
N320 is an excellent powder, nice and clean burning. But it can be more difficult to find and it is most certainly more expensive than most.
Agreed, I was lucky to find a 1/2 kg of N320 locally, been using it since in all my hand gun loads, from 32 ACP , 30 Mauser ,9mm, and 455 Webley, burns cleaner than Red Dot that I only use for shotgun shells.
Very true.
Also want to add that different types of powders are better or worse depending on how you plan to measure the charges.
And especially for newbies, there are "more forgiving" and "less forgiving" powders: Meaning, those that are more or less tolerant of measurement error.
There's a good chance if they also make bullets, primers, and/or cases then they're only going to document in-house combinations and not tell you how much of their powder to use behind a competitor's bullet.
As long as the bullets are of similar weight and construction, the rest doesn't matter much (excluding things like a wadcutter). e.g. A good 124gr RN lead bullet load is good with any 124gr lead bullet. For coated bullets, use lead data and for plated bullets, use FMJ data. The OAL might change, given the different shapes (RN vs FP etc.), but that's something a reloader should always determine for themselves (plunk and spin).
Agreed - COAL can vary quite a bit with hollow base bullets, which is a pretty common option with plated bullets (and even cast). Same but even more so with hollow points. They're usually too expensive for most newbies, but the Hornady HAP bullets come to mind. For both HB and HP bullets, only the specific bullet manufacturer's start load data can be relied on.
And while on the topic of COAL, in addition to the plunk test: Remember to check the max COAL that all of your magazines can comfortably handle, and the max COAL that your pistol can cycle. It stinks to discover one of these problems after having reloaded 500 or so "too-long" rounds...
We're all happy to help, glad you're here asking smart questions.
Nobody has mentioned yet, but if you don't already have one you should make getting and using a chronograph a top priority. You can stick to published common loads and probably be just fine. But you really have no idea about how much pressure your loads are making in your gun until you shoot them over a chronograph.
I'm not usually one for hard-and-fast rules, but for this there really is no other valid method available for home reloaders.
Chronographing is NOT a valid method of determining pressure. If you are concerned about pressure, look at the primers.
As long as one stays within published loads, the pressures will be fine. There is no real need for a chronograph when loading pistol calibers ...... this is why nobody mentioned it.
mmcintyre1220
CGN frequent flyer
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- Tillsonburg, Ontario
Best is a rather subjective term when it comes to all things reloading. I personally use Win231/HP38 for all of my 9mm,40sw,38sp,45 colt & ACP loads. It works very well for me and gets me to where I want to be. Having one powder give me the performance I want in 5+ loads is really what's best for me.
Incorrect. It is a pretty common misconception with potentially very serious consequences, which is why I try to bring it up whenever appropriate: Every reloading manual I've ever read on the subject confirms that if you see primer pressure signs with pistol cartridges, you've gone far, far beyond the safe limit.
There is a very real risk that you think you're staying within published limits when actually you're doing something wrong that you didn't realize. This is especially true for newbies, but even experienced reloaders make mistakes. Muzzle velocity will tell you in an instant. Chrono data is really useful for many other reasons, so considering how inexpensive the basic units are there's not much reason to avoid them.
For home reloaders, the chronograph is the best (and only) method for getting specific info on pressures. Technically it's a proxy measure, sure, but that's splitting hairs for most people.
Velocity can plateau. There is a maximum possible projectile velocity that can be generated from solid propellant systems.
I don't know what mistake alpining thinks could possibly result in catastrophic damage to a handgun or the casing, while leaving the primer in good shape? Some people just want to overthink stuff.
I have semi-intentionally overloaded 9mm rounds and can say from personal experience that the primers get wildly flattened long before the case ruptures. There is simply no need to chronograph pistol calibers for "safety".
Not only plateau, it can also start to drop once you push past max loads.
Agreed. I've safely, but very intentionally, overloaded many test rounds. I like to push powders to see what I can get out of them. Personally, too far for me is when one starts to lose digits, at which point a surgeon becomes more useful than a chrono. Reloading books are now written/approved by legal teams because there's a lot of a$$ that needs covering. Also, I have found some very nice loads for powder/bullet combos where published data didn't even exist (e.g. 9mm/147gr/WST). Disclaimer: Obviously, these are things that a new reloader probably shouldn't be doing.
Just in case anyone was interested in the data for 9mm/147gr CamPro/WST:
*Remember, this is NOT published data!
Gun: Ruger SR9/9E
Brass: Mixed
Primer: Fiocchi
Powder: WST 3.6gr
Projectile: CamPro 147gr RNFP
OAL: 1.135
Weather: 23°C
Avg: 872
ES: 17
SD: 6
PF: 128
Gun: Ruger SR9/9E
Brass: Mixed
Primer: Fiocchi
Powder: WST 3.8gr
Projectile: CamPro 147gr RNFP
OAL: 1.135
Weather: 25°C
Avg: 891
ES: 16
SD: 6
PF: 130
Gun: Ruger SR9/9E
Brass: Mixed
Primer: Fiocchi
Powder: WST 4.0gr
Projectile: CamPro 147gr RNFP
OAL: 1.135
Weather: 23°C
Avg: 928
ES: 21
SD: 7
PF: 136
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This is a thread for beginners. I don't think you'll find many people who will say that it is categorically "no problem" to use ammunition that is well over a cartridge's max pressure. Reading primers can work, but it doesn't always work, and that's the problem. Chronograph data is the by far the best indicator of pressure, anything else is really just guesswork. If it's the best guess that you have, and you have to make it, then that's one thing. But since chronographs are so inexpensive, there's not much reason not to use one.
Sure, it is possible to safely reload pistol cartridges without using a chronograph - Just like everything, as long as you don't make the wrong kind of mistakes. Reloaders got by for generations before chronographs became cheap and available. Most of them survived without injury. Of course, some didn't. I went without a chronograph for years, until I realized how useful the data is, and just how blind you are without one. Reloading with the benefit of chronograph data is just better. And safer. The OP is asking about how to choose powder, and I recommend chrono data as a very useful tool for comparing how different powders perform in any individual gun. It can also reveal issues that you didn't even know were there, including potentially serious safety issues. A chronograph obviously isn't magic, you can still hurt yourself. But it gives you much more information, and more useful information to help you stay in the green.
I won't disagree with your experience, but I will disagree with your conclusion: Just because you survived without any damage to your guns (and yourself) doesn't mean that everyone else would, using their guns and their loads. Too many variables. That's why reloading manuals generally have more conservative recommendations compared to the "works fine for me" brigade on the internet. Absolutely, every new reloader should decide for themselves. If you ignore the advice in reloading manuals, that's your business. It sounds like you are also recommending for beginners to ignore the advice in reloading manuals, so I've got to say my piece.
Anyway, the details are probably a great topic for discussion in another thread. A quick google search for "pistol primer pressure signs" will bring up more useful information than I could ever post here.
billbmcleod
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Back very close to Bruce County
There is a lot to be said for a beginner using bulky powders. 3.5 gr of Titegroup in a pistol case is pretty hard to see. whereas the equivalent charge of W231, Unique or Blue Dot is obvious when you are doing a final check for double charges. AND IT IS ALSO HELPFUL FOR OLD EYES.
Again, you're not answering the critical question. What mistake did the reloader make, if they were using published data, that would result in a cartridge being loaded "well over a cartridge's max pressure"? WAY TOO MUCH POWDER!!! In which case, the chrono won't do $hit because they are probably too busy collecting their fingers off the ground.
Chrono's measure velocity, period. Are they a useful reloading tool? Sure, but they don't provide a user with ANY pressure information. None. Nada. Zilch. Zero.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_chronograph
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No they don't, but the chrono's data can be a useful correlation to pressure. Understanding that and using that information will help you from overloading your cartridge. - dan
If the exact same load is fired from a 2" revolver, 6" auto, and a 10" test fixture, will the cartridge pressure change? What about the velocities, did they change? What correlation do I make?
I'm going to stick by my statement. Use published data, exercise safe reloading practices, and always determine your own OAL so you don't have to worry about pressure. It's too late if you're hoping a chrono reading will save you from a catastrophic error.
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