Amazing 308 Norma Magnum factory ammo!

W

Why not?

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Well, just to give everyone something to think about, I was at the range today checking a couple of my rifles, one of them my 308 Norma Magnum Frankenrifle. Weighing just a tad under 8 1/2 pounds with Leupold M8 4X aboard, it is basically my beater 300 magnum, and is one of the more accurate rifles in the herd.

Have always loaded it with 180s to right around 3000 fps in its 24" Voere barrel. Imagine my surprise when I fired one of the old Norma factory 180 gr Dual Core loads over the Oehler today....3153 fps, and it printed just three quarters of an inch away from the Noslers.

3153 fps! Out of a 24" barrel!

That is faster than some 300 Weatherby factory ammo I chronographed for a buddy a while back.
Ted
 
Hey Ted, I doubt you're really surprized though, this is exactly why Roy Weatherby chose Norma to load his ammo years back. They were still more focused on actual ballistics than product liability and would load Roy's babies to the velocities he stipulated, which no NA company would. That's how I heard the story anyway. But then you already knew all this, didn't you? They also loaded their babies to their maximum safe potential and if I'm not mistaken that was exactly Norma's published velocity for that load back in the 60's and early 70's.
I don't have my load books here anymore but if memory serves, Speer #8 manual had a load with N205 and a 180 that clocked right there as well. Ah the good old days when safe loads were determined by case life and not lawyers!!
 
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Why not? said:
Well, just to give everyone something to think about, I was at the range today checking a couple of my rifles, one of them my 308 Norma Magnum Frankenrifle. Weighing just a tad under 8 1/2 pounds with Leupold M8 4X aboard, it is basically my beater 300 magnum, and is one of the more accurate rifles in the herd.

Have always loaded it with 180s to right around 3000 fps in its 24" Voere barrel. Imagine my surprise when I fired one of the old Norma factory 180 gr Dual Core loads over the Oehler today....3153 fps, and it printed just three quarters of an inch away from the Noslers.

3153 fps! Out of a 24" barrel!

That is faster than some 300 Weatherby factory ammo I chronographed for a buddy a while back.
Ted
Click to expand...

Ted, I would be interested as to the head stamp on that old Norma 308.
I have said on these threads, OK, said it a few times, in the mid 1960s I was with a firm that retailed Schultz & Larson rifles, with the commonest calibres being 7mm and the 308 Norma. I did quite a lot of sighting in and shooting these rifles.
The Norma ammunition of the day was loaded hot. I have had the bolt of a 308 Schultz & Larson lock up so tight, just on firing a factory round, that it took a really good whack with a chunk of 2x4 to loosen it!
The head stamp on the Norma ammo had an "R," or maybe a "Re," imprinted right behind the calibre marking. We just assumed it meant reloadable.
However, in a few tears that marking was dropped and it seemed to me the complaints about bolts sticking also ended.
So does your case have an R, or Re marked on it, or not?
Bruce
 
c-fbmi said:
Hey Ted, I doubt you're really surprized though, this is exactly why Roy Weatherby chose Norma to load his ammo years back. They were still more focused on actual ballistics than product liability and would load Roy's babies to the velocities he stipulated, which no NA company would. That's how I heard the story anyway. But then you already knew all this, didn't you? They also loaded their babies to their maximum safe potential and if I'm not mistaken that was exactly Norma's published velocity for that load back in the 60's and early 70's.
I don't have my load books here anymore but if memory serves, Speer #8 manual had a load with N205 and a 180 that clocked right there as well. Ah the good old days when safe loads were determined by case life and not lawyers!!
Click to expand...

I still have the old Norma reloading charts, including the loading book I learned to reload with, the Norma Gunbug's Guide. The charts in this one were written before Norma developed their N205, with their slowest powder in the chart being N204.
The Norma loading charts were the only ones that I have ever seen, which had the velocities listed correctly.
For years I loaded their standard 30-06 load with 180 grain bullets, 50 grains of N203, listed at 2700 fps. Years later when I had Norma 203 at the same time as I had a chronograph, that load gave 2700 and change in my rifle!
Later, I built up a load of 30-06, with 200 grain bullets and Norma 205. I chronographed as I went and was happy to get to 2700 fps, without signs of excess pressure.
I then came across in my material, a more modern Norma chart, in which they showed N205. The load they showed for 200 grain bullets gave the exact same charge of N205 that I had used and the velocity shown was 2700 fps!
Bruce
 
Bruce - a .30-06 with a 200gr bullet at 2700fps. Talk about a darned near perfect combo for anything in North America. Especially if that 200gr bullet is a Partition!
 
1899 said:
Bruce - a .30-06 with a 200gr bullet at 2700fps. Talk about a darned near perfect combo for anything in North America. Especially if that 200gr bullet is a Partition!
Click to expand...

Yes, I built up the load using Speer 200 grain pointed, then went to Nosler partition and all was fine, so loaded them up.
Bruce
 
H4831 said:
I still have the old Norma reloading charts, including the loading book I learned to reload with, the Norma Gunbug's Guide. The charts in this one were written before Norma developed their N205, with their slowest powder in the chart being N204.
The Norma loading charts were the only ones that I have ever seen, which had the velocities listed correctly.
For years I loaded their standard 30-06 load with 180 grain bullets, 50 grains of N203, listed at 2700 fps. Years later when I had Norma 203 at the same time as I had a chronograph, that load gave 2700 and change in my rifle!
Later, I built up a load of 30-06, with 200 grain bullets and Norma 205. I chronographed as I went and was happy to get to 2700 fps, without signs of excess pressure.
I then came across in my material, a more modern Norma chart, in which they showed N205. The load they showed for 200 grain bullets gave the exact same charge of N205 that I had used and the velocity shown was 2700 fps!
Bruce
Click to expand...

The 308 Norma Mag is my favorite 30 cal magnum and I have the same Norma reloading info you speak of, pictured here with my Schultz & Larsens. The one in the middle is the model 65DL Schultz & Larsen in 308NM.



Checked in my reloading room and in my white stackable brass storage trays, top left, most of the 11 boxes of brass are items I've acquired at local gun shows over the years. On those, the headstamp states calibre only, no R or Re which is par for the course as I believe you've indicated. Some of the brass from fired factory ammo does have the Re.

 
It is no secret on here that the 308 Norma Magnum is my favorite "big" 30. :)

I own 3 at present, one is a Leeper-built custom on a 700 Magnum action with a 26" barrel.
The others both have 24" pipes on them.

That older Norma 308 Mag ammo was smoking! I remember graphing a couple of different lots years ago.
IIRC, both were in the 3125-3140 fps range in 24" barrels.

For years I loaded my ammo with old Norma 205....75.0 -76.5 grains [depending on lot #], and it was a 3100+ fps load.
Then along came Norma MRP, which gave similar results. I still have a quantity laid in, and it and IMR 7828 are
the two powders of choice in my 308 NM's. I always get 3100 or better with 180's, and 3000 with 200's [I use Partitions, mostly]

My 26" custom gun betters those figures by about 60-70 fps..
Brass lasts a long time, so no excess pressure issues evident.

I shot a nice black Bear this year at a lasered 376 yards. One 180 Partition, and it was all over but the smiling.

Regards, Dave.
 
I had a box of that head stamped "Re" and be darned if I can find it.
Was going to post a photo of it.
Must of been a Christmas present to my buddy who now owns one of
these mighty fine rifles.
Fraaaaaaak, I'm a good laddie.
S'pecially when I sleep, they tell me.

Re, I agree, means reloadable.
 
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Johnn - good to know that you won't be having any problems with pigeons and crows in your reloading room.
 
Eagleye said:
It is no secret on here that the 308 Norma Magnum is my favorite "big" 30. :)

I own 3 at present, one is a Leeper-built custom on a 700 Magnum action with a 26" barrel.
The others both have 24" pipes on them.

That older Norma 308 Mag ammo was smoking! I remember graphing a couple of different lots years ago.
IIRC, both were in the 3125-3140 fps range in 24" barrels.

For years I loaded my ammo with old Norma 205....75.0 -76.5 grains [depending on lot #], and it was a 3100+ fps load.
Then along came Norma MRP, which gave similar results. I still have a quantity laid in, and it and IMR 7828 are
the two powders of choice in my 308 NM's. I always get 3100 or better with 180's, and 3000 with 200's [I use Partitions, mostly]

My 26" custom gun betters those figures by about 60-70 fps..
Brass lasts a long time, so no excess pressure issues evident.

I shot a nice black Bear this year at a lasered 376 yards. One 180 Partition, and it was all over but the smiling.

Regards, Dave.
Click to expand...

;) Same here :D. When I first started reloading, the 308NM I had at that time, my 1st, was a Parker Hale and N 205 was my choice. I probably tried and tested a greater variety of loads in 308NM than in any other rifle calibre. Shortly after acquiring my Schutz, I found I was having difficulty obtaining N 205. Checking the Sierra manual, first, as a test rifle, they were using the same as what I now had, a Schultz & Larsen model 65DL. In their 180gr and 200gr weights, for their accuracy loads they were using IMR 4350 so that's what I setteled on. I also tried IMR 4831 but 'seemed' to get better results with IMR 4350. My best results was with the Sierra 200gr SBT and IMR 4350. A while back, a friend gave me a 1lb can/tin of N 205 but I think I'll stick with IMR 4350. Going with Barnes these days in a few hunting calibres and haven't yet decided on which to go with in the 308NM. Either the 168gr TTSX or the 180gr TSX but I'll probably stick with IMR 4350.

 
Here's the promotional writeup on the back of the box.





Wicked stuff, that really does expand and penetrate deep.






And here's the headstamp with the Re, Bruce. You can also see the NP stamp on the Norma primer.




Still hard to believe that it gives 3153 out of a 24" barrel.
Ted
 
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H4831 said:
I still have the old Norma reloading charts, including the loading book I learned to reload with, the Norma Gunbug's Guide. The charts in this one were written before Norma developed their N205, with their slowest powder in the chart being N204.
The Norma loading charts were the only ones that I have ever seen, which had the velocities listed correctly.
For years I loaded their standard 30-06 load with 180 grain bullets, 50 grains of N203, listed at 2700 fps. Years later when I had Norma 203 at the same time as I had a chronograph, that load gave 2700 and change in my rifle!
Later, I built up a load of 30-06, with 200 grain bullets and Norma 205. I chronographed as I went and was happy to get to 2700 fps, without signs of excess pressure.
I then came across in my material, a more modern Norma chart, in which they showed N205. The load they showed for 200 grain bullets gave the exact same charge of N205 that I had used and the velocity shown was 2700 fps!
Bruce
Click to expand...

Your mention of having some Norma reloading data from 'yesteryear' brought back memories of some I had recollection of having acquired as part of the deal when I purchased my 308NM Schultz & Larsen. Took a bit of digging in my reloading room but I finally located it. To start with and an item I've posted photos of in past;
The Norma Gunbug's Guide



The Norma Ballistic Table



and The Norma Ballistic Tables Loading Data



Treasures I'm glad I hung on to:D.

What Norma info do you still have Bruce??
 
Grrrrrr, I seriously have to get myself a classy nice wood rifle in 308NM. You guys are making me jealous.

Maybe I'll have to sell off a few things and get one sooner rather than later. An M70, or a nice PH, or S&L, or sweet 98 Mauser...... Something classic and pretty.....
 
Cleftwynd - I know of an old Browning Safari...hard to get any more classic than that!

Ted - what powder are you using with the 220's? I had excellent results with the .300 WM, 220gr Partitions and H1000. I was chronographing just over 2850fps out of a 24" barrel. I'd give it a try, if you are so inclined to do some experimenting.

I should point out that I sold my .308 Norma Mag a few years ago and have regretted it since. It was a "custom" built on a GEW98 action. That thing was slick. I tried pm'ing everyone I dealt with in an attempt to get it back, but my efforts were futile.
 
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