American Eagle 62gr vs AE 55gr vs norc55gr

[Bile]

So I went down to P&D today and bought some 62gr american eagle 5.56 in the 120 box for $82 something after tax and went down to the range afterwards to check it out. I was interested in buying the 62gr AE stuff in the 500 bulk but its pretty friggen expensive at 70 cents a round. The 55gr AE stuff used to sell for 1000 at around $400 something and its something like $500 now. the prices of ammo has been skyrocketing. especially at places like edmonton. the prices have been going up but the quality sure has not.

So, I'm not picky on what I shoot with this rifle so Ill feed it anything since the rifle itself isnt very accurate anyway since i haven't put the full work into it yet. Its just the crappy 16 in barrel rem 700 sps 1 in 9 twist. I picked it up for... lets not discuss that.

the AE 62gr stuff has a 13 stamp on it so I assume it was made in 2013. I looked at the brass and it has the LC stamp too so that indicated Lake City i assume. Great news right? Should be good stuff. I shot 30 rounds of it, and 4 times the primer failed to ignite the powder. I managed to get one of them to fire on a second strike, the others wouldn't ignite after 3 or 4 strikes.

I understand these rounds are meant for ARs. I get it. no big deal. Not happy about the duds, but whatever, right? the norinco rounds routinely have duds too, at about the same rate, and they were packed in....1995? uhhh...

I went ahead and chronied 4 types today. They all rung the gong every time a bullet came out at least.
The ss109 62gr mixed lot was average 3035 fps with ES of 46. (What should be standard for mass produced)
The American Eagle AR223 55gr average 2941 fps with ES of 93 (utter garbage)
The Norinco 55gr average 3120 fps with ES of 86 (what you expect from junk rounds)
And finally the American Eagle AR556 62gr average 3080 with ES of 66 (not very good)

that brings me to the second part of the thing with ammo. I fired a few types today of factory ammo.

Range 100m... or yards or something.
You see some AE AR223 55gr stuff (bottom left, bottom right) which was the clear winner on groupings today for some reason. Usually the noname brand SS109 62gr (middle and middle right) there shoots better but that stuff was a mixed lot so thats OK by me. Probably just shooter error. The Norc 55gr predictably shoots at about minute of whatever-it-feels-like (Top left and Top right).

Here was the result from the AE AR556 62 gr. I had to fire 2 groups of it before I got pissed off enough to leave. The 4 duds were the largest source of today's ire. The Norc ammo only had 1 dud. everything else went boom.

As you can see in the above photo, the AE 62gr achieved an accuracy rating of about minute of barn.

For reference here is some quick reloads i did one day when I tested out some primers to give an idea of what this particular rifle is capable of.

The price of 62 gr ammo is waaaay over inflated. I rarely see .223 rounds under $.50 a round these days. Usually $1 a round. what gives? down in the states you see 20 round boxes of .223 for 4 or $5, why is it over quadruple here? Shipping costs? Taxes? The only conclusion I can come up with is artificial inflation motivated by greed instead of interest in the sport.

So, overall, I'm glad I didn't buy the AE 62gr in 500 bulk.

Is this common or did I just run into a bad batch/bad rifle + ammo combo?

Anyway, thanks for reading.

 

[300Spartans]

Thanks for posting these results. Do you reload at all? More cost savings there and you'll get more consistency in your groupings.

 

[Bile]

Thanks for posting these results. Do you reload at all? More cost savings there and you'll get more consistency in your groupings.

I reload for my 308 mostly which ive been doing for over a year now. but the only 223 ive done were a few test batches, one of which is that last picture.

I agree completely. gathering the components and time are the 2 hardest parts in reloading.

 

[Travis Bickle]

The price of 62 gr ammo is waaaay over inflated. I rarely see .223 rounds under $.50 a round these days. Usually $1 a round. what gives? down in the states you see 20 round boxes of .223 for 4 or $5, why is it over quadruple here? Shipping costs? Taxes? The only conclusion I can come up with is artificial inflation motivated by greed instead of interest in the sport.

So, overall, I'm glad I didn't buy the AE 62gr in 500 bulk.

Is this common or did I just run into a bad batch/bad rifle + ammo combo?

Anyway, thanks for reading.

The vast majority of the market for "cheap" (I shudder when I use that word to describe any ammo in this country....) bulk quantity .223 Rem goes to dudes who blast through 5000 rounds in a day shooting paper at like 10 meters wearing multi cam with a 2" barreled AR15.

That's why noone complains lol And plus this is Canada. Everything costs more. Why? Doesn't matter, it's Canada, it just does because retailers can and people will still take out a second mortgage on their house to buy it

I find the Norinco 55gr stuff works pretty well. They all shoot about the same for bulk quantity. I might as well save hundreds of dollars and get the same accuracy give or take an inch or two. It's cheap junk ammo but it still groups well enough to have fun out to 200 meters for me anyhow.

You're shooting the cheapest of the cheap of .223 Rem, in the case of Norinco it's actually surplus 55gr Chinese copy of the M193 service cartridge and expecting it to be consistent, reliable and accurate? You will always be disappointed. It may be overpriced but again, this is Canada and the next average level in quality factory .223 Rem ammunition is about $1 a round and then it goes up from there. A lot of the cost is shipping rates (ammo is f**king heavy in large quantities!), DG rates, taxes, importation taxes and paperwork etc etc A lot of it is probably also greed, especially with the bulk surplus junk you have there. There are next to no ammunition producing plants in Canada that sell North American commercial ammunition. Almost all of it is imported from the US or Chiang Xze Kong if it's surplus.

 

[Bile]

The vast majority of the market for "cheap" (I shudder when I use that word to describe any ammo in this country....) bulk quantity .223 Rem goes to dudes who blast through 5000 rounds in a day shooting paper at like 10 meters wearing multi cam with a 2" barreled AR15.

That's why noone complains lol And plus this is Canada. Everything costs more. Why? Doesn't matter, it's Canada, it just does because retailers can and people will still take out a second mortgage on their house to buy it

I find the Norinco 55gr stuff works pretty well. They all shoot about the same for bulk quantity. I might as well save hundreds of dollars and get the same accuracy give or take an inch or two. It's cheap junk ammo but it still groups well enough to have fun out to 200 meters for me anyhow.

You're shooting the cheapest of the cheap of .223 Rem, in the case of Norinco it's actually surplus 55gr Chinese copy of the M193 service cartridge and expecting it to be consistent, reliable and accurate? You will always be disappointed. It may be overpriced but again, this is Canada and the next average level in quality factory .223 Rem ammunition is about $1 a round and then it goes up from there. A lot of the cost is shipping rates (ammo is f**king heavy in large quantities!), DG rates, taxes, importation taxes and paperwork etc etc A lot of it is probably also greed, especially with the bulk surplus junk you have there. There are next to no ammunition producing plants in Canada that sell North American commercial ammunition. Almost all of it is imported from the US or Chiang Xze Kong if it's surplus.

I understand that. It's pretty obvious. All very agreeable to what you say. I was concerned with the American Eagle 62gr stuff specificly. I really don't mind about the norinco stuff. What really concerns me is that the norinco stuff seems to preform significantly better then the AE 62gr stuff in accuracy, reliability and is better priced. Would it be premature to say that the 30 rounds I fired of it being neither consistent or even reliable yet was priced at $.71 a round should have at least been comparable to the AE 55 which has always fired and grouped smaller and at around $.50 a round?

that was all that I was getting at.

 

[Yukoner89]

I believe the AE 55gr with the ar15 on the box has mil spec primers. From my understanding (could be wrong) they have a harder cup which may make them harder to ignite in some firearms.

All the 5.56 stuff has the mil spec primers as well to my knowledge.

 

[hek76]

Ive tried the lc 556 62 gr and 55gr 223 and 556 with 100 percent on my bushy. My groups are good at 100 m with both red box ae 55gr and black box ae55gr. I have some hornandy 75 gr 556 for long distance, but at 1.50 a round it sits in the safe. I did however notice the brass was dented o alot of the 62 gr xm855s

 

[hek76]

At italian sporting goods i picked up packs of 100 ae 55gr 223 black box for 38.99 on their sale so i cleaned them out lol

 

[crashcollins]

They aren't exactly duds! They are as you state "meant for AR's" so have the harder primers. Your gun is not designed to shoot these so you would do better to stay away from AR and 5.56 loads, stick with commercial .223 loads.

You could however see if you can install a stronger hammer spring that can set off the harder primers more reliably. I personally would not shoot 5.56 loads in a .223 chambered gun, but thats just me. Lots of People do and report no problems, but others report problems like you have.

Just a FYI SAAMI lists shooting 5.56 Nato in a .233 chambered gun as a unsafe combination. The AR223 load you tried may not be unsafe to shoot but will not be reliable because of the hard primer.

Nice tests though, I always like to hear of personal experiences when testing ammo and guns.

 

[Travis Bickle]

I understand that. It's pretty obvious. All very agreeable to what you say. I was concerned with the American Eagle 62gr stuff specificly. I really don't mind about the norinco stuff. What really concerns me is that the norinco stuff seems to preform significantly better then the AE 62gr stuff in accuracy, reliability and is better priced. Would it be premature to say that the 30 rounds I fired of it being neither consistent or even reliable yet was priced at $.71 a round should have at least been comparable to the AE 55 which has always fired and grouped smaller and at around $.50 a round?

that was all that I was getting at.

Not at all Sir.

I also find the Norinco ammo as good if not better than most mass produced bulk North American .223 Rem from what I've shot, that is comparing it to MFS, AE, etc

It never made any sense to me to pay way more for "North American Good Bulk Ammo" when the "cheap Commi garbage" shoots as good, as reliable and for way less money than any of the rest.

Also, all that ammunition you trialed is made for the tacticool dudes blasting away at 5 meters with AR15's, not precision commercial bolt guns designed to fire soft primer commercial .223 Rem ammunition.

 

[Chrisville]

I'm going to assume the 62gr AE ammo doesn't work well with your barrel.

I was consistently getting hits on a 1"x1" steel plate at 600 out of a 14.5" and a 16" Daniel defense AR barrels. (Twist rate 1:7)

As for consistency of speed, I Chronnied 20 rounds of my box, and the ES was 26 FPS. No its not the greatest ammo, but I think it fits the $79.99 price tag.

 

[Red_Liner740]

That's a typo right? One by one INCH? At 600 yards?

In the end if you want cheap but accurate 223 for your bolt gun, you're gonna have to reload, as you already do.

I'm going to assume the 62gr AE ammo doesn't work well with your barrel.

I was consistently getting hits on a 1"x1" steel plate at 600 out of a 14.5" and a 16" Daniel defense AR barrels. (Twist rate 1:7)

As for consistency of speed, I Chronnied 20 rounds of my box, and the ES was 26 FPS. No its not the greatest ammo, but I think it fits the $79.99 price tag.

 

[blackacres]

Hey Bile,

As you mentioned, a lot of the guys, including me, are shooting the ammo you tested in AR's, Tavor's, etc., the majority of which have 7:1 twist rates. Most of these guns were designed/built to reliablely bang out rounds with enough accuracy to hit larger targets.
At lot of factory mass produced, common caliber ammo only offers decent accuracy, Mil spec ammo provides a bit less accuracy.
I'm not certain, but your 9:1 twist rate may be a tad slow which may have some impact on accuracy when shooting heavier bullets.

A good friend of mine has a Rem bolt gun which has/had a 12:1 twist rate with a longer barrel than yours, it wouldn't shoot 55 gr, or anything heavier with any decent accuracy results. Yet the rifle shot low/mid 40 gr bullets very well. He has since changed out barrels to a tighter twist rate to shoot heavier bullets at longer ranges, plus he now reloads which gives him sub MOA.

What bullet weight did your reloads have? Velocity? As they are hand loads I would expect a better ES than mass produced ammo.

It's a known fact that the Mil ammo primers are harder than others, most likely the reason you had FTF issues. I purchased and installed a Timney trigger in my Tavor, it is also well known that Timney had to supply a heavier spring as there were numerous reports of FTF when using Mil surplus ammo.

I tried the Norc ammo in one of my AR's, I would agree it provides similar accuracy to the AE ammo, but it smells really odd to me, plus it is soooooo damn dirty I stopped using it.

As it appears you already know, for a .223 bolt gun the only way to go to get good consistant accuracy, plus lower cost ammo, is to 'roll your own'! That's all I shoot out of my .223 bolt gun now. As I don't own a bore sight, and my old eyes aren't that good, I used AE to get the scope to 'hitting on paper' and that was the last time it will see that type of mass produced ammo.

 

[z71camaro]

I have not seen Norc being as accurate as, well, anything else. UMC is the only US ammo that it's close to at times. But even the UMC (as below) does nice groups sometimes.

Top row is out of a Tavor, bottom is an 11.5" DD lightweight barrel AR, both through the same Viper PST at 4x, and both still with their ####e stock triggers. All 5 shot groups at 50 yards, this is the average I was consistently getting today (aside from the UMC, it decided to show off for the camera), at 100 when I did my part (sweat was pouring down my face by then, it was damn hot) the groups were usually the proper double of these, maybe a touch bigger, but I wasn't consistent enough to get a good group photo. All shots done with a bag under the front and free holding the rear, so not the best setup.

From left to right:
AE AR223 55 grain (black box), AE 223 62 grain (red box), Hornady 55 grain, Rem UMC bulk 55 grain, and Norc 55 grain.

The bottom round of the Tavor 62 grain group was my oops.



And to the op, with the 1-9 as has been said, these are a touch heavy, try the AE 50 grain 223 or I've surprisingly had very good luck with the Winchester 40 round white box 40 grain varmint soft tip 223 even out of 1-7 twists as well.

 

[Phat Eagle]

I also find the Norinco ammo as good if not better than most mass produced bulk North American .223 Rem from what I've shot, that is comparing it to MFS, AE, etc

It never made any sense to me to pay way more for "North American Good Bulk Ammo" when the "cheap Commi garbage" shoots as good, as reliable and for way less money than any of the rest.

Also, all that ammunition you trialed is made for the tacticool dudes blasting away at 5 meters with AR15's, not precision commercial bolt guns designed to fire soft primer commercial .223 Rem ammunition.

I second Mr. Bickle's claim... I am one of said "tacticool dudes", and use a TON of Norc fro training, most of it on the move and sub-10 metres. I've posted my results, and the Norc isn't much worse than the AE 55; and much better than Wolf or other surplus.

My father-in-law has a nice .223 bolt gun and has nothing but trouble with Norc 5.56. He says it has something to do with the shoulders of the chamber not being exactly the same and not allowing for proper primer strike.

You may be best off with rolling your own... 62gr bullets aren't much more than 55gr.

 

[Bile]

I second Mr. Bickle's claim... I am one of said "tacticool dudes", and use a TON of Norc fro training, most of it on the move and sub-10 metres. I've posted my results, and the Norc isn't much worse than the AE 55; and much better than Wolf or other surplus.

My father-in-law has a nice .223 bolt gun and has nothing but trouble with Norc 5.56. He says it has something to do with the shoulders of the chamber not being exactly the same and not allowing for proper primer strike.

You may be best off with rolling your own... 62gr bullets aren't much more than 55gr.

i agree with you and with pretty much everything that everyone is saying.
for me, the trick is finding 62+ projectiles at good prices and in good quantity aswell as the time to put them together.