American Longrifle caliber advice

Madmatt2

Madmatt2

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I was looking at maybe starting a flintlock American longrifle build.

I come seeking caliber advice. What I wanted to know is should I get a barrel in .54 or .62?

I mostly hunt deer, but have shot black bear before.

I read other forums where individuals have been persuaded to go with the larger .62 as opposed to the .54 because deer lay down with either piece of lead, and you have the option of hunting larger game such as moose, elk, bison, and larger bear.

I originally wanted .62, but the .54 is also appealing because it takes less powder charge to get the rifle to shoot accurately, and is used for the game in my area.

Any help in deciding is appreciated
Thanks!
 
Would the caliber affect the barrel contour/weight?
From a kit or scratch built from parts? Are you aware of Jim Kibler's kits?
 
Some people go for the larger bores as they tend to make the guns a bit lighter but as you said a 54 will use less powder and lead so unless you do plan hunting a lot of larger game down the road the 54 will get the job done
 
I am looking at possibly building "from scratch" using parts that are pre-made, but carving the stock from a blank.

I've been reading "The Gunsmith of Grenville County" as a primer

I was looking at Rice Barrel Company barrels. A lot of people seem to talk about them and they seem to be reputable and good manufacturers.

https://ricebarrels.com/collections...fling-with-flared-plug?variant=41507072475333

They seem to have different profiles available for for the .54.

Although weights aren't stated, I imagine the difference in weight between a swamped .62 and .54 would be ozs and not pounds?

I have seen kits around, and I thought about doing one as a first just to set myself up for success as best as possible
 
Have a look at w ww.jimkibler.net.
Just about the exact opposite approach, compared with whittling a stock out of a bank.
 
I would go with a Kibler kit, if I were in your position. I have only built 4 from scratch and the biggest problem that I faced with the first one is that I had only ever seen TC hawken style rifles and their Italian look alikes. A high quality kit gives you some idea of how to create your next stock. Also, out of several muzzle loading rifles that I have owned, my favourite for shooting has a tapered and swamped barrel and that feature got rid of about 2 lbs of barrel weight compared to a straight barrel. I would also go with 54 caliber, at least in part because it saves a lot of lead and powder to shoot and as with any gun, lots of practice is highly desireable.

cheers mooncoon
 
Just because the piece will be muzzle loaded doesn't mean it has to be primitive. I'd suggest a proper bullet, not a round ball, and a sabot. Forty-five and 50 calibre bullets are common enough to have all the mistakes worked out. You want to kill the game animal, not bore it to death with a history lesson.
 
That is a mighty big first step if you don't have some muzzleloader building experience AND are not a somewhat skilled woodworker. The Kibler kits are excellent and are, by far, the easiest way to build a nice period correct gun with minimal input. Depending on the exchange rate, it will set you back about $1,600.00 - $1,900.00 Cdn at your door. Another excellent choice would be one of Jim Chambers kits (flintlocks.com). They will require quite a bit more hand work, but that also equates to more opportunities to do some personalization. The Chambers kit will likely cost you about $200.00 to $300.00 less than a Kibler kit.

If you are set on doing a plank build, step back, take a deep breath and don't rush out and start collecting parts. Start by deciding what school (style) of rifle you want to build and research appropriate architecture and parts for that build. The first step in a plank build is the creation of a full-scale plan utilizing your chosen parts. It is much better to discover a part isn't right in the planning stage than the assembly stage. As others have mentioned, the larger calibers will be more expensive to feed and not nearly as pleasant to shoot and, if you are going to become proficient with it, you must get out and practice. The most popular caliber is the .50 and that will easily take deer-sized animals. Flint or percussion?

I strongly recommend you visit the American Longrifles forum (https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php). They are a great group of dedicated builders and collectors and are more than happy to provide guidance and encouragement for a less experienced builder.
 
If you want quality, well proportioned attractive rifle, get a Kibler or Chambers kit. While I am familiar with Kiblers kits I have not handled one but you don't "build" a Kibler or Chambers kit, you finish them. I have finished a couple Chambers kits over the years. The biggest advantage of these kits (other than they save you a PILE of grunt work) is that, as was suggested in another post, you get the advantage of the actual architecture being done correctly, something that will surely not be the case if you start with a blank. Alexander's book is a pretty good one. The suggestion of drawing out actual size blueprints is also a good one if you are going to start with a blank. A good friend, Taylor Sapergia, ALWAYS made actual size blueprints of each gun he built. I never have but I think it prudent to do so. I always just draw out the "blueprint" on the blank. If you do choose to go the blank route and want to go .62cal, I have a 42" swamped .62 cal barrel inlet into a nice piece of walnut that I would sell. The plan was to build a long barrelled Jeager but doubt I will ever get to it.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
Just because the piece will be muzzle loaded doesn't mean it has to be primitive. I'd suggest a proper bullet, not a round ball, and a sabot. Forty-five and 50 calibre bullets are common enough to have all the mistakes worked out. You want to kill the game animal, not bore it to death with a history lesson.
Click to expand...

Most traditional style muzzleloaders are slow twist for round ball. Round ball takes game just fine.
 
To me, the appeal of carving a stock from a blank was so that I would have a rifle that was truly mine.

I know that I would make mistakes and proportions may be off of what is historical for the originals and it may not look great at the end, but I would have gained useful experience for the next one and potentially have gained a rifle that I can show off as having been built wholly by myself.

My stock would be nothing impressive and would be without a patchbox or ornate carving patterns. Just to set a realistic expectation for myself. Chips, Knicks, dings, and imperfect (but somewhat reasonable) proportions aren't too worrisome for me.

I will think about potentially starting with finishing off a kit then moving up to carving out a plank of my own. Just to have some more experience in "gunsmithing" and a stock to compare my progress against when I start my plank maybe.

I think that I've decided on .54 as opposed to .62

I think if I build one, I doubt it'll be my last. You always start with one. That's how they all start. Every journey begins with the first step
 
I like the J.P. Beck style Lancaster, Pennsylvania longrifles. The low drop to heel, and flatter buttplates are appealing to me.

The stylistic drop to heel on some American Longrifles seem much too large for me. I can't imagine I would like shooting something with a lot of drop, but maybe I would. It's hard to know without knowing anybody that has one and without having tried it myself
 
I think you made a wise choice in going with the .54. Lancaster rifles and, in particular, Beck's work have been my favorite for quite some time. I have plank-built them and assembled one of Jim Chambers kits and could not be happier with the way they shoulder. You might also be interested in the style of rifle that might have come out of Augusta Co., Virginia ca 1760 - 1780. I think they were likely the inspiration for the Woodbury school Hershel House has created. Their architecture tends to be influenced by British fowlers of the period and the fit and feel approximates that of the Lancaster school.

I have to disagree with the comment regarding the assembly of a Chambers kit. There is plenty final inletting and shaping involved and you would benefit from the overall architecture having already being established. There is a whole lot more involved in assembling a Chambers kit than there is in assembling a Kibler kit. In my opinion, it would be an excellent first build and would be a valuable study piece for future builds.
 
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I think that I'll finish off reading The Gunsmith of Grenville County, then make my choice if I want to get a Chambers kit or build from a plank.

Apparently, inletting the barrel and ramrod channel is the most difficult part, and almost everything else is just fun.

I was less interested in a kit where I just assemble the pieces, but if the Chambers kit involves some inletting of pieces, then that may be something I would be more interested in.

I'll have to look into those rifle styles. I appreciate all the help, everybody!
 
The Chambers kit is a bit more involved than the Kibler but not by a lot. A Chambers kit would be a good choice as it will provide minimal "building" experience but will act as a great architectural study piece. It is too bad you live so far away, I have rifles here built in a few different "schools" that you would be welcome to try for fit and comfort. Interestingly, I built a .40cal squirrel rifle for my Dad years ago and the stock dimensions he asked for, I thought were horrendous. WAY too much drop IMO but it was his rifle so I built it according to his request. Turned out to be an EXCELLENT rifle to shoulder and shoot
 
Here is another option you might consider. For a first rifle made from parts and a blank, you might want to consider a half stock hunting rifle with a parallel sided barrel. No, it doesn't have the elegance and sophistication of a classic long rifle. But the same elements of construction are there, and the experience gained is worthwhile. You will also get out shooting sooner.
 
Unless you want to do the whole thing completely yourself, ordering a blank with the swamped barrel already inlet will save many, many hours and a lot of cursing for a first build.
 
Madmatt2 said:
I think that I'll finish off reading The Gunsmith of Grenville County, then make my choice if I want to get a Chambers kit or build from a plank.

Apparently, inletting the barrel and ramrod channel is the most difficult part, and almost everything else is just fun.

I was less interested in a kit where I just assemble the pieces, but if the Chambers kit involves some inletting of pieces, then that may be something I would be more interested in.

I'll have to look into those rifle styles. I appreciate all the help, everybody!
Click to expand...

Oh you really stepped in it now ... ;)

When you are finished the gunsmith book, pick up "Recreating the American Longrifle" - pretty much the same with a few differing points - It's cheap and a fun read and good to get a couple different perspectives.

Barrels, Rice is pretty much considered top of the pile for production barrels, I like Colerain and Green Mountain as well, but if you are looking at a swamped barrel I believe Rice & Colerain are the only options. (Chambers kits use Rice barrels BTW)

So - if you are looking at a Lancaster (Pennsylvanian-style) rifle, your barrel will probably be swamped and anywhere from 32" - 44" .54 is a good choice, You would not want to carry a .50 44" barrel for very long. .58 would be even better.

If you were to go with a half stock, Hawken style, go with a tapered barrel, .54 at least .58 would be better. (lighter that is)

Locks and hardware, most hardware is pretty much the same supplier to supplier, but they all have different people doing the castings, so quality can vary - Chambers has very nice castings.
Chambers locks. nothing else. (I actually have about 10 of these on hand)

Your plank, Sugar Maple, (good luck!) or a particularly hard piece of Red Maple - other Maple species are too soft. It will be challenging to find a board over 2" thick. Ideally 2 1/2" is what you are looking for.
If you are going for Walnut, shop carefully, again hard to find a board thick enough and newly cut Walnut just does not seem to have the density of a 200 year old piece .... (oh well)
Other options are Cherry, Birch and Ash - Curly Black Ash can look pretty remarkable.

As far as building, yea, barrel channel and ram rod channels are the no-guts-AND-no-glory jobs, but you can get 90% of them done with a router in a little over an hour. (unless you don't know what a climb cut is .... then you are in for it!)

The challenging moment is drilling the ram rod hole. (you need a 4' drill!)

So yea - the payoff really is looking at your hands thinking "I made that with these" ... let us know if you need any pointers and HAVE FUN!
 
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