American suing Canadian outfitter over Marco Polo trophy.

track said:
I believe you and another person misunderstood or maybe I didn't make myself clear, what I meant by supporting other businesses. I was referring to the Mom and Pops gas station, grocery store, cabin rental, etc. I don't want nor need the services of an outfitter/guide, I have black bears and sheep well within an hours ride of my home, along with mule deer, whitetail, cougar, moose and elk. All hunters from Alberta and British Columbia have these animals and then some, why go elsewhere and pay outrages amounts of money? I am humbled by what these two provinces have and need not look elsewhere.
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More people live in the GTA than in AB or BC. Believe it or not, there are quite a few Canadians who have to go on guided hunts if they want those species. Neither AB nor BC have what I'd classify as "bargain prices" as far as hunting goes, regardless of what they're offering. I can hunt antelope in Wyoming for less than half the price of an AB hunt. I can shoot a leopard plus plains game in Africa for less than a stupid sheep. Regardless, to say those that spend it have more money than brains is an idiotic statement.

Many would think spending $2500 on a Cooper with a cheap matte finish and plastic stock is completely ludicrous.
 
When I hear 65 year old electrician and dream hunt I tend to think that he's a working guy on a dream hunt. Not that its any better to defraud, steal from or be negligent with a rich man, but the more money than brains comments aren't really called for. Maybe he just realized that at his age he may not need anything in a few more years.

The guys apparently a sheep nut. Marco Polo are considered by many to be the premier game animal in the world (that could be debated) Its inevitable that a sheep nut would dream of that one. If someone can climb mountains at 15000 feet at 65 years of age my hats off to him. To see someone succeed then have the momento of his success lost or stolen makes my blood boil.

I've had horns mixed up. I've had hunts fall apart, and have friends that have been outright defrauded on hunts. I've had the booking agents that are supposed to be a layer of protection turn out to be useless sacks of fertilizer. Don't even get me started on corrupt government officials and fees that look a lot more like extortion than a fee.

Its about time that a few of these guys were hung out to dry to put the fear of god into the remainder. Usually they will get away with this stuff because of distance and foreign countries but not always.
 
bearkilr said:
How do you know that? He got a set, they just weren't his. For all we know, it could be as simple as a guide in Tajikistan inadvertently switching his set with one from another hunter. Maybe the name tags/permits became detached in transport and reattached to the wrong ones. I'd suspect they had more than one successful hunter.
Yes it's an unfortunate event, but I don't think it's grounds for a law suit. That's the American way though; sue first, ask questions later.
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If you read the article, the hunter said he's gone through a year of trying to get his mount back, and the outfitter said "That's hunting" before he got fed up and went to legal channels.
I would also like to see a pic of what he received in lieu of his horns also.
 
Dogleg said:
When I hear 65 year old electrician and dream hunt I tend to think that he's a working guy on a dream hunt. Not that its any better to defraud, steal from or be negligent with a rich man, but the more money than brains comments aren't really called for. Maybe he just realized that at his age he may not need anything in a few more years.

The guys apparently a sheep nut. Marco Polo are considered by many to be the premier game animal in the world (that could be debated) Its inevitable that a sheep nut would dream of that one. If someone can climb mountains at 15000 feet at 65 years of age my hats off to him. To see someone succeed then have the momento of his success lost or stolen makes my blood boil.

I've had horns mixed up. I've had hunts fall apart, and have friends that have been outright defrauded on hunts. I've had the booking agents that are supposed to be a layer of protection turn out to be useless sacks of fertilizer. Don't even get me started on corrupt government officials and fees that look a lot more like extortion than a fee.

Its about time that a few of these guys were hung out to dry to put the fear of god into the remainder. Usually they will get away with this stuff because of distance and foreign countries but not always.
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Lots of stuff goes on over there for sure. Have you ever noticed that you see very few kill shots of the hunter with the actual kill but most are just a caped out head? One of the most common "scams" is getting the hunter to shoot at extreme distances and then assuring him he hit the target but saying it likely ran into China and they will send some guys to get it later. At that point they pull a frozen head out of cold storage and present it to the hunter the next day. Most guys that can afford to go over there can't handle the altitude and this saves a lot of climbing and ensures that guys take a ram home. I suspect most hunters never know what went on. Ram size is often contingent with the amount you tip as well. It doesn't get any more corrupt than over there and one really needs to do their homework to ensure you get your dream hunt and even then, there are no guarantees. I got lucky and had the hunt of my dreams but nightmares seem all too common. You really need to have the right attitude when you go over there. This will be the hardest hunt, both physically and mentally that most hunters ever do and likely one of the most expensive. It's not hard to understand why a set of horns becomes so important to them......they represent a lot. The armchair experts that have never been in that situation will just never understand but will rather just continue to criticize! It's sad how we continue to feed on our own.
 
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sheephunter said:
Lots of stuff goes on over there for sure. Have you ever noticed that you see very few kill shots of the hunter with the actual kill but most are just a caped out head? One of the most common "scams" is getting the hunter to shoot at extreme distances and then assuring him he hit the target but saying it likely ran into China and they will send some guys to get it later. At that point they pull a frozen head out of cold storage and present it to the hunter the next day. Most guys that can afford to go over there can't handle the altitude and this saves a lot of climbing and ensures that guys take a ram home. I suspect most hunters never know what went on. Ram size is often contingent with the amount you tip as well. It doesn't get any more corrupt than over there and one really needs to do their homework to ensure you get your dream hunt and even then, there are no guarantees. I got lucky and had the hunt of my dreams but nightmares seem all too common. You really need to have the right attitude when you go over there. This will be the hardest hunt, both physically and mentally that most hunters ever do and likely one of the most expensive. It's not hard to understand why a set of horns becomes so important to them......they represent a lot. The armchair experts that have never been in that situation will just never understand but will rather just continue to criticize! It's sad how we continue to feed on our own.
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Which outfitters are duping the hunters with the “shoot and thaw” and “big size for big tips” scams?
 
Moon said:
Which outfitters are duping the hunters with the “shoot and thaw” and “big size for big tips” scams?
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Many of them. It's common practice in Tajikistan especially. I would highly suggest checking numerous references before you go.
 
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Ansten Østby has a really good reputation and I know several people that have booked through Asian Mountain Outfitters for Tadjik that have had good hunts but I still think once you are in Tadjik that it's good to be aware of the scams and not fall into them...at least the shooting at extreme range one. As the hunter you can say no. As for bribes for the biggest ram...I'm not sure you could reliably get around that once you arrive in Tadjik regardless of who you book through.
 
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