Ammo for 1913 DWM P08 Luger

Brookwood

Brookwood

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Saskatoon
Hello everyone.

I am in the process of purchasing a 1913 9mm DWM P08 Luger (restricted, modified 'Canada legal' barrel, installed and inspected by a professional gunsmith). I am curious what ammunition is recommended for it to cycle properly. I've read conflicting reports on the internet about it being designed for a higher grain weight than standard North American 9mm parabellum (which leads to jamming) VS. using a lower grain weight to 'reduce stress' on the toggle. The firearm is robust and I am not concerned it will self destruct.... I am also just planning on taking it to the range to do target shooting, nothing more adventurous than that. I would appreciate some advice from fellow forum members with experience.

What is the proper ammunition for a 9mm p08 Luger?

Thanks in advance,

Brookwood
Saskatoon
 
The truncated cone was the original 9mm P-08 bullet design. They got away from it as it was deemed too close to the banned "Dum-Dum' bullets.

They are available in FMJ, along with a variety of FMJ RN and RNFP designs in weights from 115 gr to 147 gr.
 
P08s can be very fussy. They need to be loaded to a relatively hot pressure to ensure proper feeding and extraction. The last one I used to load for wouldn't function on factory loaded North American ammunition.

I found I had to load the 115 grn jacketed bullets I was loading up to 1200+ fps for reliable operation.

I had purchased some commercial factory ammo to shoot in this particular pistol. It was accurate but didn't let the pistol function reliably. It worked very well all the way around in my P38 though.

You really need to be careful when it comes to loading surplus 9mm into P08s and P38s. They can and will do damage to those pistols depending on how hot they are loaded.

The P08 has one of the strongest lock up systems designed. The problem is with the toggle and extractor. Plus P ammo will cause extractors/plungers/springs to disappear on some P08s and P38s. Submachinegun ammo that is loaded for some designs is hot as hell. I found that out early in my shooting career when testing different lots of surplus 9x19 back in the sixties when it was readily available. It wasn't until NATO standardized the pressures and velocities for the cartridge that there was any trustworthy consistency. I can remember a batch of Spanish surplus that bulged barrels in P35s, caused the internals in P38 slides to disappear and broke toggles on P08s. The stuff was eventually sold for components only unless the owner of good strong sub guns was looking for cheap ammo.

The PO8 is a strong design. The thing is, other than the very odd run they don't make them anymore. Even the re barreled units are pricey.

OP, if you reload, use bullets from the 115-125 grain range and start with listed mid range loads. The pistols are usually worth the effort to work up a consistently reliable load for. Anyway start with a mid range load and work your way higher until you find a load that is correct for your pistol.
 
bearhunter said:
P08s can be very fussy. They need to be loaded to a relatively hot pressure to ensure proper feeding and extraction. The last one I used to load for wouldn't function on factory loaded North American ammunition.

I found I had to load the 115 grn jacketed bullets I was loading up to 1200+ fps for reliable operation.

I had purchased some commercial factory ammo to shoot in this particular pistol. It was accurate but didn't let the pistol function reliably. It worked very well all the way around in my P38 though.

You really need to be careful when it comes to loading surplus 9mm into P08s and P38s. They can and will do damage to those pistols depending on how hot they are loaded.

The P08 has one of the strongest lock up systems designed. The problem is with the toggle and extractor. Plus P ammo will cause extractors/plungers/springs to disappear on some P08s and P38s. Submachinegun ammo that is loaded for some designs is hot as hell. I found that out early in my shooting career when testing different lots of surplus 9x19 back in the sixties when it was readily available. It wasn't until NATO standardized the pressures and velocities for the cartridge that there was any trustworthy consistency. I can remember a batch of Spanish surplus that bulged barrels in P35s, caused the internals in P38 slides to disappear and broke toggles on P08s. The stuff was eventually sold for components only unless the owner of good strong sub guns was looking for cheap ammo.

The PO8 is a strong design. The thing is, other than the very odd run they don't make them anymore. Even the re barreled units are pricey.

OP, if you reload, use bullets from the 115-125 grain range and start with listed mid range loads. The pistols are usually worth the effort to work up a consistently reliable load for. Anyway start with a mid range load and work your way higher until you find a load that is correct for your pistol.
Click to expand...

Thanks!! EXACTLY what I was looking for!

Brookwood
 
I have a 1936 p08 and I use factory 124gr in it. I tried 115gr and it was a bit fussy but it may have been the brand of ammo. I use S&B, Federal, and PMC now and it all runs well in 124 and also 147gr. Very neat firearm and for me, it shoots best from an accuracy point of view one handed. I had heard that was the way it was designed regarding shooting one handed, don't know if that's true but seems to work well.
 
I have a 1937 S/42,it likes S&B 115 gr,but indoors we are only allowed cast and its not too fussy about it,sometimes the toggle won't close all the way and needs a little push.
Mine is still a 12(6) but someday I may have to have it rebarreld,dread the thought!!
VE5HFD
 
For more info on the P-08 truncated cone bullet, refer to the April 2016 issue of "Handloader" magazine by Terry Wieland. Hornady makes a 124 gr HP jacketed bullet that approximates the original design.
 
I had two lugers and used 115 bullets and adjusted to the load to be a low as possible and still cycle the action. This was the method recommended on the LugerForm and worked for me. For commercial ammo the 115g white box Winchester was quite reliable.
 
Down in the lower 48 we shoot the Walmart white box Winchester 124gr ammunition in all three of what used to be MY Luger pistols with complete success.

Personally, I would NOT be shooting my pre-WW1 Luger with anything, but it's yours.

As for 'small production runs', that was either the Mitchell versions - made in stainless steel from the late '80s - mostly wishful thinking one-shot wonders, or the $10K plus Krieghoff run from the middle-90s' Good luck finding one, and owning it, as the barrel is the correct length and is not covered under the relevant licensing section.

tac, formerly of lugerforum.com
 
sail32 said:
You might try Googling " Luger Forum " for reloading. A number of hits come up.

Also; http://www.lugerforum.com/

As mentioned Lugers, are very picky about ammunition and easy to destroy.
Click to expand...

I would beg to differ the the 'Easy to Destroy'...I've read that they are quite robust actually. Granted they are rare and hard to source parts for.
But finicky...yep. The original design was developed for the 30 Luger; a bottlenecked round, and the angle of the grip ( hence the magazine) isn't conclusive to easy feeding.
The ammo thing...confusing. Too many conflicting legends of what a Luger wants.
Lot's of stories as to..." Well, I know what works... "
I think getting a Magazine that works with your Luger is a major hurdle to overcome, and really...who shoots one a lot?
 
I have swiss luger and obviously I only feed reloads to it as the 7.65 para is kind of scarce. My friend who owns all matching 12.6 black widow luger and brings it to the range to play fairly often, that thing eats everything you throw at it. From mfs to my 135 gr led drg reloads. One of the most accurate and reliable handguns hands down.
 
gewehr76 said:
I have swiss luger and obviously I only feed reloads to it as the 7.65 para is kind of scarce. My friend who owns all matching 12.6 black widow luger and brings it to the range to play fairly often, that thing eats everything you throw at it. From mfs to my 135 gr led drg reloads. One of the most accurate and reliable handguns hands down.
Click to expand...

I have a similar S/42 that does exactly the same thing. It is not the norm. Most 9mm P08s are fussy but when fed ammo they like they can be absolutely reliable. My S/42 has had the feed ramp honed to a slightly lower profile as well.
 
124 grain jacketed bullets or 120 to 130 cast bullets and slower burning powders usually work the best--many 9mm Lugers prefer the loaded cartridge to be on the slightly long side--resulting in one less round in the magazine. I have had several Lugers over the years and most would shoot quite reliably with one or two loads.
YMMV, 44Bore
 
bearhunter said:
P08s can be very fussy. They need to be loaded to a relatively hot pressure to ensure proper feeding and extraction. The last one I used to load for wouldn't function on factory loaded North American ammunition.

I found I had to load the 115 grn jacketed bullets I was loading up to 1200+ fps for reliable operation.

I had purchased some commercial factory ammo to shoot in this particular pistol. It was accurate but didn't let the pistol function reliably. It worked very well all the way around in my P38 though.

You really need to be careful when it comes to loading surplus 9mm into P08s and P38s. They can and will do damage to those pistols depending on how hot they are loaded.

The P08 has one of the strongest lock up systems designed. The problem is with the toggle and extractor. Plus P ammo will cause extractors/plungers/springs to disappear on some P08s and P38s. Submachinegun ammo that is loaded for some designs is hot as hell. I found that out early in my shooting career when testing different lots of surplus 9x19 back in the sixties when it was readily available. It wasn't until NATO standardized the pressures and velocities for the cartridge that there was any trustworthy consistency. I can remember a batch of Spanish surplus that bulged barrels in P35s, caused the internals in P38 slides to disappear and broke toggles on P08s. The stuff was eventually sold for components only unless the owner of good strong sub guns was looking for cheap ammo.

The PO8 is a strong design. The thing is, other than the very odd run they don't make them anymore. Even the re barreled units are pricey.

OP, if you reload, use bullets from the 115-125 grain range and start with listed mid range loads. The pistols are usually worth the effort to work up a consistently reliable load for. Anyway start with a mid range load and work your way higher until you find a load that is correct for your pistol.
Click to expand...

That is incorrect, or at the very least misleading. P-08's are extremely reliable. If you feed it out of spec ammo, it will not work properly just like any other firearm. Ammo needs to be hot (i.e original spec ammo) and FMJ or truncated cone. Current 9 mm ammo overall is not as powerful as the original design. 9mm NATO ammo is pretty much on per (other factors make it different though). Also the original geometry of the design wrt to feeding ammo from the magazine never took into account today's modern bullets, such as HP's etc.

The correct ammo for the correct gun. Internet myths need not apply.
 
Light Infantry said:
That is incorrect, or at the very least misleading. P-08's are extremely reliable. If you feed it out of spec ammo, it will not work properly just like any other firearm. Ammo needs to be hot (i.e original spec ammo) and FMJ or truncated cone. Current 9 mm ammo overall is not as powerful as the original design. 9mm NATO ammo is pretty much on per (other factors make it different though). Also the original geometry of the design wrt to feeding ammo from the magazine never took into account today's modern bullets, such as HP's etc.

The correct ammo for the correct gun. Internet myths need not apply.
Click to expand...

That is a silly statement. P-08's are extremely reliable but only with the right ammo...not so reliable then are they?
I had a heck of a time getting a proper load for mine. Mayhaps this is my fault.
Perhaps the definition of reliable is the issue.
Did lot's of reading on what it takes to make Lugers function properly...Ken Waters has a good write up on reloading for the P-08. Ken acknowledged that it is a difficult pistol to reload for...Internet myths need not apply.

Edit; if you really want to see reliable, try a Steyr - Hahn. That lil pistol will eat anything...the 9 x 19 rounds are 6 mm too short for the magazine. It doesn't care. As low as 800 fps or as high as 1200, different lengths, varying bullet profiles, various brands of cases...like a fat kid eating smarties. No-where near as accurate as a P-08, but it is reliable. That is my definition of reliable, pick up a box and just go to the range. Lugers are one of the most iconic pistols...but like a stripper GF. Everyone oohs and ahhs over her lines and exotic looks...then she squats and pee's on the floor. Nice...let you down for...what reason...don't know...
Just my opinion of course...feel free to speak otherwise.
 
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Absolutely. Swiss lugers are the way to go. They are much better made and don't have that German late war get it out of the door feel to them. They are made with care and fit and finish on them is impeccable. Yes ammo is as hens teeth, but if you reload, its easy to roll out of 7.62x25 components.
tokguy said:
...but I may consider the Swiss unit with the bottlenecked round next time.
Stay safe
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