Swiss P1906 pistols are indeed very nicely finished and a pleasure to shoot. Some folks feel they are the crudest of all the Parrabellum pistols.
Ammo for 1913 DWM P08 Luger
- Thread starter Brookwood
- Start date
Swiss P1906 pistols are indeed very nicely finished and a pleasure to shoot. Some folks feel they are the crudest of all the Parrabellum pistols.
gewehr76
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Crudest really. I'm not an expert on thesese pistols however those that I handled, swiss were the nicest finished guns.
Moment you change the barrel on the P08 you change the sinc between various parts of this sophisticated machine. P08 (Luger) is consisted of many parts and many springs and they all work together to deliver. Changing the barrel you adding weight to toggle train. This thing only will throw P08 out of the balance. Now being over 100 years old design it is expected that some other parts are out of original spec as well. Even if all matching chances are that you will have some metal fatigue inherited especially in springs department. (6 of them). Whole system was built around 9mm bullet which at that time was produced with only one powder available to them. Nitrocellulose powder retarded down to very slow burning rate. Today we have choice of hundreds of different burning rate powders. If you reloading secret is to find right one for your particular P08. Especially if you changed any of the components. Key here is to stay around 350m/s and use slow burning powders which are not as snappy. Good luck.
You won't get an argument from me. I think the author of the article was referring to other things such as grip design and maybe grip safety. It wasn't my opinion but I have heard similar comments on more than one occasion. I am a big fan of the 1906 Swiss.
You should explain how all that works to the Finns. They converted their pistols from 30 cal to 9mm and lengthened the barrel while they were at it. Nothing else was changed. Their ammo was Nato compliant.
gewehr76
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Thank you sir, however discussion in this thread is about PARABELLUM pistol, ammo and what they digest better
Coyote Ugly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Moment you change the barrel on the P08 you change the sinc between various parts of this sophisticated machine.
Whoa! Hold that thought! How do you explain the Factory P08 Lugers with 4", 6" (Navy) and 8" (Artillery) Barrels???
Whoa! Hold that thought! How do you explain the Factory P08 Lugers with 4", 6" (Navy) and 8" (Artillery) Barrels???
Great question! As far as my research has indicated there was no special provision made to alter the 'toggle train' from a standard p08 when it was manufactured as a 6" or 8" version. I also have my doubts that adding an additional 1/4 inch to the original barrel length will directly result in a detrimental effect on the mechanism of the firearm.
Brookwood
Last edited:
Coyote Ugly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
And then there are the Luger Carbine Factory P08's with special factory shoulder stocks and longer barrel lengths.
http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/1475Carbine02C.htm
http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/1475Carbine02C.htm
To untrained eyes, yes all springs look same. But in fact, they are not same. The secret is in applying a proper set of springs to a particular model, combined with the offset center of main toggle pin and a distance between toggles and frame ears which varies from model to model from 5 to 6.5 mm. Offset from the center is sometimes 0.4 to 0.6 mm depending on the model as well. They are other subtle differences as well. Just to illustrate some:
Now when people start switching parts thinking that all parts are same they are contributing to "finicky to operate" reputation of P08. There is a reason why every single part is numbered to the gun, shop manuals describe spring in great detail from the material to be used for specific application to the method of manufacturing. Transiting from old model to new model and departing from leaf springs took George a few years of experimentation, testing careful calculations till springs problem was solved. Now when you compile old data you will find that Luger springs vary in a number of coils 14.25 to 22, length from 2.6 to 3.5 inches, and in poundage from 50 to 65 roughly.
There is/was the reason that Mauser initially only offered the new Parabellum in 4" 9mm and 6" 7.65 luger. All others were too unreliable and they had already manufactured a large number of actions that they didn't want to scrap either.
For the Carbine models, they developed 3 different type/cal. of bullets. Carbine models were not a great commercial success for good reason. As well as pocket models.
Now .45 model was made to work right with German made ammo but not American made ammo, therefore, no pass at the tests trials.
Last edited:
The internet only goes back so far on certain items.
During the 50s, 60s 70s, etc. there were many articles in the Gun Magazines on how people managed to destroy their Lugers through use of reloads and improper ammunition.
Submachine gun ammunition was not a good idea for Lugers.
Many articles where written on how many coils should be cut off the Luger's main spring to make it function with the weaker, or perhaps the wrong powder filled American ammunition.
Also there were a number of articles on altering a P08 to fire .45ACP ammunition.
During the 50s, 60s 70s, etc. there were many articles in the Gun Magazines on how people managed to destroy their Lugers through use of reloads and improper ammunition.
Submachine gun ammunition was not a good idea for Lugers.
Many articles where written on how many coils should be cut off the Luger's main spring to make it function with the weaker, or perhaps the wrong powder filled American ammunition.
Also there were a number of articles on altering a P08 to fire .45ACP ammunition.
Last edited:
The issue of "HANDLOADER" magazine I mentioned earlier re: the truncated bullet design has an article entitled - "Loading for Lugers" by Terry ieland.. The guns in the article were a DWM "carbine", a DWM 1915 Artillery model and a DWM 1908 commercial. The powder used was a stiff charge of CFE.
No mention of any issues re: springs except for magazines. They need a stiff magazine spring to function well.
"During WWII, some 9mm ammo was marked "for machine pistils only", and the conclusion was that it was higher pressure, higher velocity and unsuitable for Lugers. In fact, according to Dr. Geoffrey Sturgess, a world Luger authority, there is no difference in pressure, only the cartridge case itself. By 1943, with brass in short supply, the Germans experimented with steel cases. Since these did not function well in the Luger's chamber, such ammunition was restricted to SMGs while brass cased ammunition was reserved for pistols."
If memory serves, the Canadian 9mm ammo I used while in service and later in IPSC was on the anaemic side, barely making "minor". Most of us shot heavier reloads.
No mention of any issues re: springs except for magazines. They need a stiff magazine spring to function well.
"During WWII, some 9mm ammo was marked "for machine pistils only", and the conclusion was that it was higher pressure, higher velocity and unsuitable for Lugers. In fact, according to Dr. Geoffrey Sturgess, a world Luger authority, there is no difference in pressure, only the cartridge case itself. By 1943, with brass in short supply, the Germans experimented with steel cases. Since these did not function well in the Luger's chamber, such ammunition was restricted to SMGs while brass cased ammunition was reserved for pistols."
If memory serves, the Canadian 9mm ammo I used while in service and later in IPSC was on the anaemic side, barely making "minor". Most of us shot heavier reloads.
gewehr76
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Yes we didn't really answered your question. didn't we.
Unfortunately its up to you to figure out what your luger likes. Get as many different samples of 9mm ammo as you can and shoot them. Its simple as that. Obviously stay away from flat pointed bullets or hp. 147gr is the limit for 9mm although majority of that ammo is FP. Mainly stick to 115gr FMJ or try some 124gr you never know, they might be ok. Just remember that these pistols need pointy bullets to feed reliably.
hope this helps.
Unfortunately its up to you to figure out what your luger likes. Get as many different samples of 9mm ammo as you can and shoot them. Its simple as that. Obviously stay away from flat pointed bullets or hp. 147gr is the limit for 9mm although majority of that ammo is FP. Mainly stick to 115gr FMJ or try some 124gr you never know, they might be ok. Just remember that these pistols need pointy bullets to feed reliably.
hope this helps.
