Ammo for older SxS

JustBen

JustBen

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I recently acquired an older Belgian Leige (Armaf) shotgun from TradeEx. It appears to be manufactured in 1947 and proofed for smokeless powder, based on the proof marks on the underside of the barrels. 2 3/4 chamber with improved cylinder and modified chokes.

I'm curious to what ammo I can reasonably run in this thing. Main purpose is clay shooting and upland birds. My initial thoughts are that I can run target loads (Federal Top Gun or Winchester AA), and maybe some other lighter loads for birds. I don't plan on using "nitro magnum extreme pheasant" loads or anything like that. Or does anyone think I need to buy some more exotic light loads from RST or similar?

Also, I'm curious about non-toxic shot. I've heard steel is an issue for older guns, but with such open chokes, how much of an issue is this? To be honest, for the amount of waterfowling that this gun will see, I'm likely going to run tungsten or bismuth, despite the extra cost.

As always, help is appreciated.
 
I wouldn't worry toi much as l9ng as it is chambered for 2 3/2" shells.
Target loads or light upoland would e fine.
I wouldn't shoot steel out of it however.
I hand load Nice shot or Bismuth for my vintage guns if I am going after duckas and geese.
Cat
 
Any standard 2 3/4" loads should be fine. I would avoid steel. I would avoid short magnums. Not that the gun would burst, but a steady diet of them might cause it to shoot loose.
 
Light, heavy, magnum it doesn't make any bit of difference, it's the pressure of the shotshell that you should be concerned about. The truth is many "light loads" actually run at a higher pressure than the heavy and magnum ones. Shooting steel or tungsten based shot (Kent Tungsten Matrix is an exception) thru your gun could be an isssue though. Choke dimensions from back in the day were not very accurate. A modified choke back then could be as open as an improved or as tight as a x-full. I would have a gunsmith measure bore diameter and muzzle diameter the confirm exactly how much choke each barrel has before firing the harder shot types. If they wind up both "modifed" or less in constriction then go ahead and shot anything thru it!
 
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VLT79 said:
Light, heavy, magnum it doesn't make any bit of difference. The truth is many "light loads" actually run at a higher pressure than the heavy and magnum ones. (QUOTE]

So you are saying a 2 3/4" magnum load doesn't create anymore pressure and recoil than a 2 3/4" standard field load. I know I wouldn't be shooting any magnum loads through my vintage SxS's .
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gunsaholic said:
So you are saying a 2 3/4" magnum load doesn't create anymore pressure and recoil than a 2 3/4" standard field load. I know I wouldn't be shooting any magnum loads through my vintage SxS's .
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Yes and NO! At no point did I mention the word "recoil" and I didn't say all light loads but rather "many" light loads. Pressure and recoil are 2 very different beasts and are in no way related to one another. Pressure, and not recoil, is what will cause the steel to stress and fail prematurely.
 
Exactly my point. But within one sentence you said there is no difference between light, medium or heavy loads (which implies all) but then you said many light loads which contridicts the first part of your statement. Truth is there is a difference between loads and we are telling the OP to use lower pressure loads, not just grab any box off the shelf because there isn't going to be any difference. And while recoil and pressure are 2 different things, you are going to have more recoil in a maximum load than in a standard field load in the same gun. And while the recoil may not stress the metal, it sure will stress the stock on an old gun.
 
use Gamebore felt was loads. The barrel on the old gun will be tight .729, the forcing cones will be short for felt wads, the Gamebore cartridges are 2.5 inch and low pressure. WE use them in old shotguns and they pattern well and are much fun and they do bring birds down!!!!
 
You should be able to use any commercially loaded LEAD 2-3/4" 12 gauge shells, if your shotgun is in good mechanical cndition. maximum pressure rating on shells hasn't changed , so modern shells are loaded to the same pressure standard your shotgun was designed for in 1947. Just don't shoot any steel out of it.
 
gunsaholic said:
Exactly my point. But within one sentence you said there is no difference between light, medium or heavy loads (which implies all) but then you said many light loads which contridicts the first part of your statement. Truth is there is a difference between loads and we are telling the OP to use lower pressure loads, not just grab any box off the shelf because there isn't going to be any difference. And while recoil and pressure are 2 different things, you are going to have more recoil in a maximum load than in a standard field load in the same gun. And while the recoil may not stress the metal, it sure will stress the stock on an old gun.
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My apologies! I just re-read my 1st comment. I forgot a few words in the fist sentence. It's edited now.

Also, the only time I've had stocks or forearms on vintage guns crack is if they were loose or the gun was dropped. The stock broke or the cracks would get worse with stiff recoil but I've honestly never seen properly fitted wood break or crack due to recoil alone. Of course that doesn't mean it can't happen.
 
1947 isn't really all that old.

I shoot normal target loads through my 1925 Ithaca Flues with no issues.
 
VLT79 said:
My apologies! I just re-read my 1st comment. I forgot a few words in the fist sentence. It's edited now.

Also, the only time I've had stocks or forearms on vintage guns crack is if they were loose or the gun was dropped. The stock broke or the cracks would get worse with stiff recoil but I've honestly never seen properly fitted wood break or crack due to recoil alone. Of course that doesn't mean it can't happen.
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No big deal--now we are all on the same page.:)
 
Thanks for the help guys.

What I learned today:
1. I should measure my bores and chokes
2. I will avoid steel in this gun. Tungsten matrix or other soft non toxic shot only.
3. I should look for low pressure and low recoil ammunition, but modern target/light field loads should be fine.
 
I have an old Savage-Fox model B I got in trade. The stock had no visable cracks,but you could "wiggle" it by twisting the gun. The previous owner said he got it from his wifes grandfather and it hadn't been fired in many years. So I took it out to my clays range for a round(50 shots) of Sporting. First bang and a splinter of wood fell off her,second shot another,then another. After 10 shots she was ready to fall apart,literally,in many pieces. Now,with a new stock installed its a great shooting old double!
 
JustBen said:
Thanks for the help guys.

What I learned today:
1. I should measure my bores and chokes
2. I will avoid steel in this gun. Tungsten matrix or other soft non toxic shot only.
3. I should look for low pressure and low recoil ammunition, but modern target/light field loads should be fine.
Click to expand...

ANY modern 2-3/4 inch Lead ammo will be fine if your shotgun is in good shape mechanically. If you were talking 1907, i would say definitely lightish loads designed specifically for vintage scatterguns but by 1947 metallurgy was developed to the point that the firearms built then are as strong as modern firearms. In fact 1947 firearms ARE modern firearms.

And be careful with the "light" loads - some of the cheap target loads like the winchester 100 pks actually develop higher peak pressure than many heavy field loads. There is no guarantee that lighter loads are less harmful, especially the bargain shells.
 
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