Ammo, it's always the damned ammo... (part deux) (pic heavy)

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This is a comparison of various commercial ammo and handloads in .357Mag. Firearm is Henry Big Boy Steel (H012M), wearing a Bushnell Legend Ultra HD 3-9x40 scope.

Shooting was done from a Cadwell front rest and rear sand bag, at 49m distance. Stiff wind from the front, minimum 2 mins interval between each shot (and barrel cooled with a damp cloth to ensure no warping the shots from a hot barrel). Each target is 10 rounds, aimed at the centre. No scope adjustments done during the shoot.

Commercial ammo:

The good: Federal American Eagle 158gr JHP:
Fed%20158gr%20JSP_zpsmd4nmrcm.jpg


The Not-so-bad: CCI Blazer Brass 158gr JSP:
CCI%20158gr%20JHP_zpsmd8xvyn1.jpg


The Ugly: Winchester Super-X 125gr JHP:
Win%20125gr%20JSP_zpsnzs4glqi.jpg


Yah... three rounds didn't even hit the target, they were that high. We're seeing a 10 MOA spread, and that's the better of the two attempts I did with that ammo, the other one was 15+ MOA! Looking closely at the ammo showed terrible quality control: in some rounds, the crimp is over the cannelure. In some rounds, the entire cannelure is hidden inside the case, in some, it's entirely exposed, and some rounds didn't look crimped at all. WTF Winchester...


Reloaded ammo: All were loaded from Winchester once-fired brass, CCI 550 primer, the minimum charge of Hodgdon H110 powder for the bullet in question, at 1.590" OAL.

Load 1620: CamPro 125gr Full Copper Plated Truncated Cone (FCP TC) bullets @ $11/100:
Load%201620_zpsrkwabesc.jpg


Load 1621: CamPro 158gr FCP TC bullets @ $13/100:
Load%201621_zpsvyfz5mg5.jpg


Load 1622: Hornady 125gr XTP (JSP) bullets @ $35/100:
Load%201622_zps0xo4ffl3.jpg


Load 1623: Hornady 158gr XTP (JSP) bullets @ $40/100:
Load%201623_zpslqstwsht.jpg



One last comparison, 3 groups of 10 for loads 1621, 1622 and 1623. Note how the POI changes from left to right in the 1622 and 1623 loads! Any idea what causes that? Harmonics? They're both Hornady XTP JHP bullets, 125 and 158gr respectively.
Loads%201621-22-23_zpskhefr1w5.jpg



Conclusions:

1. Winchester will kiss my naked rear end before I'll buy any of their ammo again. :mad:

2. I'm real happy not to have ordered a thousand CamPro bullets! I have less than 200 left of the 125gr crappy ones (maybe $15 worth) and it's going straight into the trash can. :p

3. Reloads will cost more, since I won't be using the cheapest stuff anymore. Annoying, but what's the fun in shooting with ammo that goes where it wants? :(

4. The Henry seems to prefer 158gr bullets, I'll be concentrating my reload on this weight.
 
Yah... Firearms, Electronics, Cars, Advice and Women... you always only get what you pay for. ;)
 
I am shocked that cam pro bullet weights are always on the light end and so far from "standard". I dont know for sure, but before you knock them, have you tried load development specifically for them. a 158gr recipe on a 125gr bullets should be blah.

It would be different if you said you could not develop a load for 125gr campros.
 
This is what I used (all loads use Winchester fired once brass, CCI 550 primers, OAL 1.590"):

Load 1620: Campro 125gr FCP TC - 19.0gr (data from Campro)
Load 1621: Campro 158gr FCP TC - 15.0gr (data from Campro)
Load 1622: Hornady 125gr XTP - 21.0gr (data from Hornady)
Load 1623: Hornady 158gr XTP - 15.0gr (data from Hornady)

Not only that, the previous test I did with the same five bullets used the middle of the range for the powder charges: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1420100-Ammo-it-s-always-the-damned-ammo

Load 1616: Campro 125gr FCP TC - 20.0gr (data from Campro)
Load 1617: Campro 158gr FCP TC - 15.8gr (data from Campro)
Load 1618: Hornady 125gr XTP - 21.5gr (data from Hornady)
Load 1619: Hornady 158gr XTP - 15.8gr (data from Hornady)

That first test gave essentially the exact same results. The Campro 125gr were spreading themselves over 15+MOA , the 158gr were inconsistent, doing either 4-6 MOA or 8-10 MOA while the Hornady bullets were both doing groups of 10 holes inside of 3-4 MOA (1½"-2" @ 50y).

If the Hornady 125gr had been going all over the place, I'd have said it's certainly the firearm that hates that particular bullet weight. It does tend to do a weird stretch toward the upper left (see the pictures above for the 2 groups of 10, load 1622), and I have been getting some inconsistencies with load 1618 too (2 groups of 8 MOA then a 10-rounds group at 2.5 MOA), so perhaps there's an element of that in play. Still, compare the spreads for the Campro 125gr and the Hornady 125gr bullets, and it's evident that something is wrong with the Campro ones.

I plan to try max charge for Campro 125gr (21.0gr) just for the sake of trying everything out, and I need to locate some commercial 125gr by a company other than Winchester to compare to.


Just for the record, I'm not having any such issue with the Campro 9mm FCP RN bullets that I use with my Beretta Cx4 (despite a distressing inconsistency in projectile length), those will make 2-3 MOA groups easily enough. This seems to be a problem specific to the .357 caliber bullets.

P.S. And I'm still scratching my head at the load 1622 shooting 2 MOA to the left while 1623 shoots 2 MOA to the right. That one's got me stumped. Up or down I'd understand... left and right?? :confused:
 
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I've had the same experience with Winchester ammo, it sucks and I avoid it. I also have found Hornady bullets (in general) are the best of the 'cheap' bullets and give much better groups than bulk budget bullets.
Nice range report, good stuff.
 
ampegor said:
seems the gun does not like light bullets - might be something to do with the chqmber or rifling rate.
something to consider
Click to expand...

I thought about that, but there's one test I did with Winchester white box 110gr JSP that gave normal 3-6 MOA groups (normal for cheapo ammo, that is). Here's the picture of those shots. Aim point for the 110gr was the middle of the small diamonds on top, and the middle of the small diamonds on the bottom for Win Super-X 125gr.

.357%20Win%20ammo_zpstrpcl449.jpg


I have hundreds of Hornady 110gr XTP bullets I'm getting for free from their "get loaded" promotion, so I'll be able to experiment a lot with that weight.
 
lister said:
I've had the same experience with Winchester ammo, it sucks and I avoid it. I also have found Hornady bullets (in general) are the best of the 'cheap' bullets and give much better groups than bulk budget bullets.
Nice range report, good stuff.
Click to expand...

B said:
I am never surprised when I see Winchester ammo performing poorly. I have had the same experience myself nearly every single time.
Click to expand...

Thanks you two, it's good to see my observations confirmed. :)
 
Generally levers prefer the heavier 158 in my experience. As others have stated Winchester ammo is not that great. Maybe try Sellier & Bellot, Geco or Black Hills.
 
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