Ammo Recoil And You...Where Are You On This Recoil Table?

Recoil factors: wrong length of pull, bad form, experience with different calibers, standing vs sitting, weight of firearm, semi vs manual, size of shooter, proper stance, muzzle brake, number of shots fired, and psychological aspects. Some guns are meant to be shot once or twice at a moose with full Adrenalin and then put the rifle down lol.

When the old man was still alive, I mentioned I was thinking of getting a 410 shotgun to teach girls to shoot and the old man reminded me that I was shooting the 12 gauge at about age ten. I had good form and I was standing, but I was a short, skinny kid. I’ve taught some girlfriends since then to shoot the 12 gauge no problem. I’m sure there are calibers that would make me eat dirt, but I’m not terribly recoil sensitive.

I’ve shot a 338 with a muzzle brake and it was more pleasant than a wwII military carbine with a metal butt plate. People forget about brakes.

A few years ago, I was out shooting with some friends and one guy was scared of the 12 gauge and was wearing dirt bike armour and couldn’t handle the recoil. No problem with an sks. I believe a lot of it is psychological as i’ve had girlfriends that are like no problem with the 12 gauge, but they took my advice on form and stood leaning into the shots with a good stance. The guy I mentioned above, no matter what I said, I don’t think he pulled the shotgun tight enough into the shoulder pocket.
 
bearhunter said:
What you're describing isn't unusual for a tall fellow, with a long neck.

I'm about 6 inches shorter than you are, with a thick neck and I can't handle heavy recoil either, but I'm not as sensitive as you are.

I'm lucky in that most rifles are built for people with my stature. Very short people or people over six feet often have issue with their rifles not fitting them properly.
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I also have a pretty thick neck, to the point where with shirts set to my height (L-XL) don't usually close around it if I'm standing straight. I don't know why, but I really just don't like instantaneous, sharp recoil. I've shot like 500 rounds of 7.62x39 in a day and felt great the next day, and shot 25 rounds with a shotgun and hate myself for doing that the next day. I think the big thing for me is the weight of the gun, which obviously influences recoil, but for me it might be the acceleration you get with the light ones over the actual amount of energy transfered. For example, if I shoot 10 rounds of .308 through my ADL, that's it, done. If I shoot 80 through my Ruger Scout I'm laughing. The only thing I can think of that's really different is the weight of the two, and the heavier one slows down the recoil more.

But I hear what you're saying, the stringbean dudes over 6 feet definitely don't have the correct proportions for the heavy loads out there. The brick ****houses of the world, short and squat, are built for those.
 
Below extremes like .454 Casull or bigger in a handgun or some ridiculous magnum cartridge in a light rifle, recoil doesn't bother me much.

What does is anything that generates a piercing muzzle blast. I'm sound pressure sensitive enough where even something like door slamming suddenly can actually leave me dazed, so an intense muzzle blast can be a real shock to my system.
 
A few years ago I got tired of reading about recoil from Soviet M44's.
So I went out one afternoon and ran 80 rds through an M44. Wearing a T-shirt no less.
Shooting from a standing and or sitting position with elbows on my knees.
Slight stippling of bruising on my right shoulder...it's mind over matter for the most part.
Got to get your arse off that bench
 
tokguy said:
A few years ago I got tired of reading about recoil from Soviet M44's.
So I went out one afternoon and ran 80 rds through an M44. Wearing a T-shirt no less.
Shooting from a standing and or sitting position with elbows on my knees.
Slight stippling of bruising on my right shoulder...it's mind over matter for the most part.
Got to get your arse off that bench
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There is no worse condition to feel recoil than shooting off the bench, especially from a front rest and rear bag. There just isn't any give for the body to take up smoothly.

The only one that may be worse, is shooting with your back against a wall or some other object.

M44s and M38s definitely give me trouble, no matter which position I shoot them from, including standing.

My shoulder would be black and blue the next morning, after such a session as you describe.

My hold is good, tight against my shoulder at a comfortable level for my eyes to be aligned with the sights and a good cheek weld.
 
Some many years ago, perhaps 1970's, I read an article by the "old man" himself - Elmer Keith - and it was about shooting from sandbags from a bench, with his 458 Win Mag. A lot of what I wrote, I took to heart - much is repeated above. You are not going to "hold" the rifle's recoil - you are going to "go with it". If it hurt you, is because somehow you did not place it correctly, or you let it get a running start before it was into your mass - so perhaps recoil pad slamming into your shoulder, or the comb slapping you in the face. That was you - the shooter - that allowed that to happen. The rifle is going to come back and the muzzle is going to rise. Your job is to make yourself - your head and torso - part of that rifle's mass, and just go with it. Really experienced and practiced guys will cycle the bolt with the gun still up in recoil, and by the time they have brought it back to sight, is already to fire again. But that takes practice. Many of the "big names" that you read about - Aargard, Shoemaker, Keith, etc. have been doing that for decades - not just for one or two Saturdays at the range, or a couple boxes of shells.
 
Bearhunter... I hear you on this. Body mechanic's can be weird and often hard to understand... I can't describe it myself actually. But I've seen 160 lb men plant their feet ( sorta...because you are walking) and outdo 220 pound men.
I can't understand it or explain it... but it goes in hand with 'Knowing you can do it'
I suspect you have done things that I never shall... as I have done visa versa ( mine was likely just 'Patch mind you).
I've never gravitated towards 'Poodle shooters'... I have a sought after rifle ( ain't mentioning it... don't need the PM's) that I thought I ought to trade for a...urp...223 bolt...
Just tryna burn up some powder and primers that are excess to my needs.
But I just cant get away from Milsurp 30 cal's... it's a result of shooting hard kicking rifles I suspect. Micro concussions from recoil perhaps?
But it's not a size or gender thing...that seems to bear no relevance I find
 
Perhaps some people are more pain sensitive? Seeing some people talk about the sore shoulder the next day makes me wonder ... I get a sore shoulder too, but in my brain tomorrow is tomorrow and today I’m in the moment and don’t feel a thing ... not yet anyways.
 
I was shooting an extremely accurate lightweight 308 my groups at 200 yards would be two rounds touching and the third about 2 inches off. At first I thought it was the barrel heating up that was causing the group to open up. Then I miss counted my rounds and I noticed that I had a small flinch. That was inducing 1 moa error in my shooting. I think that any rifle capable of generating enough recoil to cause pain will likely cause even a skilled shooter to flinch eventually.
 
So I've been shooting a fair amount this year, probably 500 rounds downrange of centerfire, and would have to say moving from 180's @ 2700 to 250's at 2400 is about an 8lbs difference, but to me they feel pretty much the same. I think the difference from, let's say, 2lbs to 10lbs is very noticeable. 10lbs to 18lbs fairly noticeable. 20-28lbs less so and so on. So from my own experience, I think I'm right around 30lbs of recoil for being able to shoot 20 rounds off the bench consistently so going to revise my maximum to .300 Wby Mag/8mm Rem Mag/.338 Win Mag levels as the absolute "okay I'll sight your gun in for you, you wuss" recoil level.

I may try a PAST recoil shield or something in the future for the sake of comfort since it's pretty hot at the range and shooting in a t-shirt is a lot different than shooting with a base layer, mid-fleece, and down fill outer layer during hunting season. That plus shooting off sticks or kneeling like I usually do helps to mitigate the sensation of recoil - I've fires 375 H&H mostly offhand without issue in the past without problem but I've also shot 300 grain rounds off the bench as well - not fun, would not do again.
 
Technique.
Psychology.
Gun fit.
Gun weight.

And sometimes, blast and noise are what might be bothering the shooter instead of recoil. Such as shooting indoors or under a covered firing line.
 
A light 375 Ruger shooting 270 at 2800 was quite doable off the bench, but required proper position and preparation. That’s just past 40 lbs on the list. The 338WM says 35 lbs, but my Vanguard was not painful. Offhand standing shooting was not significant with either. I agree that often the concussion scares shooters, especially when under a roof. Big bore revolvers often scare shooters the same way, when the recoil wouldn’t actually be too much for them.
 
I find it pretty specific to the gun. I have a 30-06 with a hard butt plate that I feel after a dozen shots off the bench, but my 444 is a pleasure to shoot. Different kind of recoil. I had 338 Win Mag with a muzzle brake and the blast from the brake felt like a slap in the face. So much that I never really noticed the recoil. I think I prefer the kick to the shoulder over the slap in the face.
 
I used to be bothered by recoil of my .308 or similar mild cartridges. But after conquering that aversion, I wanted to hunt bigger game like Cape buffalo, so needed bigger rifles. I trained and shot a lot, working up to heavier loads and paying attention to technique. Now an average weight rifle in .375 w/ 300 gr. bullet or .450/400 with 400 gr. bullet feels OK to shoot. That's somewhere between 40-50 foot pounds of recoil energy. I don't want to go higher, but i know I can handle that much.
 
Well, a lot can change since I originally posted in April...that I am not OK with 12ga (that was based on past experience). Much has changed in eight months. And very timely today, since I managed to get through 102 rounds of 12 gauge slugs at the range today, with only a mildly sore shoulder (and only when I think about it) - I was able to bring in my groceries afterwards and such without any problems. Got a new semi auto shotgun last week, which I was told may help lessen the felt recoil. Today was my first day to try it out.

I used some low recoil rounds (Score Competition Slug, Challenger Target Slug, Remington Sluggers Managed Recoil version). Honestly, I was telling a fellow range member after shooting these 12ga slugs out of my gun that my lighter .40 PCC seems to kick more.

I think the excellent weight distribution of the gun was a large contributing factor. I was shooting offhand the whole time and the gun didn't feel heavy at all, even at 8lbs, which I have noticed on other guns (with not quite the weight distribution balance).

I have to say, the fun of just blasting away at my Splatterburst paper targets was delightful. And honestly, people recommending that push/pull technique - definitely helps. And keeping the stock squarely and firmly shouldered. After my first shot of the 12ga slug in my new gun, I was like "hey, this ain't bad at all". Previously I tried to ease my way into the 12ga again by using the Aguila Minishell slugs, but it was through a very short pump with a bird's head grip, which was a bit harder to control without being able to shoulder the gun. It was fine, but not really something I can say I really enjoyed and would do week after week.

My new semi auto has a pistol grip and a very comfortable adjustable stock. The weight distribution was great, and after a few shots, I almost forgot about the recoil/kick. These were 2 3/4" 1oz slugs, and it was honestly a hoot to shoot this afternoon. I was telling one of the members that it is like many things - the fear and anticipation of something you dread oftentimes is worse than the actual subject of your fear (ie. public speaking).
 
thegazelle said:
Well, a lot can change since I originally posted in April...that I am not OK with 12ga (that was based on past experience). Much has changed in eight months. And very timely today, since I managed to get through 102 rounds of 12 gauge slugs at the range today, with only a mildly sore shoulder (and only when I think about it) - I was able to bring in my groceries afterwards and such without any problems. Got a new semi auto shotgun last week, which I was told may help lessen the felt recoil. Today was my first day to try it out.

I used some low recoil rounds (Score Competition Slug, Challenger Target Slug, Remington Sluggers Managed Recoil version). Honestly, I was telling a fellow range member after shooting these 12ga slugs out of my gun that my lighter .40 PCC seems to kick more.

I think the excellent weight distribution of the gun was a large contributing factor. I was shooting offhand the whole time and the gun didn't feel heavy at all, even at 8lbs, which I have noticed on other guns (with not quite the weight distribution balance).

I have to say, the fun of just blasting away at my Splatterburst paper targets was delightful. And honestly, people recommending that push/pull technique - definitely helps. And keeping the stock squarely and firmly shouldered. After my first shot of the 12ga slug in my new gun, I was like "hey, this ain't bad at all". Previously I tried to ease my way into the 12ga again by using the Aguila Minishell slugs, but it was through a very short pump with a bird's head grip, which was a bit harder to control without being able to shoulder the gun. It was fine, but not really something I can say I really enjoyed and would do week after week.

My new semi auto has a pistol grip and a very comfortable adjustable stock. The weight distribution was great, and after a few shots, I almost forgot about the recoil/kick. These were 2 3/4" 1oz slugs, and it was honestly a hoot to shoot this afternoon. I was telling one of the members that it is like many things - the fear and anticipation of something you dread oftentimes is worse than the actual subject of your fear (ie. public speaking).
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Public speaking is much worse. Recoil tolerance can be trained and overcome. It becomes normal, one learns to roll with it, instead of leaning into and tensing up. Is that a.tolerance or technique. After my last crash 12 years ago, my tolerance was gone. Still have chronic issues, but today I can again shoot 338wm and 375 rum. Repetition, technique, fitness, stock design, rifle/projectile design and weight, and recoil velocity. One of my first thumpers was a 10-11lb 375 h$h, dampened by rifle weight, and good stock design it was more a big rolling boom of moderate recoil velocity. Compared to the sharp Crack of a lightweight 300mag with max handloads.

Going to the range it's likely volume shooters with sport rifles in say 223, or PRS calibers take a bigger pounding. My Rum got a max load with 260 partitions, checked every year, go kill shet. Bought circa 2001 I'm about 120 rounds in. Found some 375 projectile in my trailer, including about 400 of the 260 partitions. I also bought 5 boxes of factory ammo on clearance from back east, maybe six years ago for $35/box, so in total have 300 brass. Other 375 projectile became surplus. I've got several lifetimes supply, even bought a identical rifle on the EE years ago, spun on a 300wm barrel and resold it. So even a spare barrel.

Here where I live, it's tiny blacktail and no alpha predators. I carried either a 44 mag rossi or 7x57 m77 this year. Just a hunter 3days, add $400 in ferries from the muskwa. Not looking to sell shots out of a boomer to tourists. YMMV.
 
To me theres a difference between competently and at your best.

I can shoot a 375 H&H or 9.3x62 competently and have killed with both. Its also fun and a workout to sling big ol bullets. I know what Nowarningshot means about fast magnums vs heavy medium bores with an express stock that fits well.

But I'm not shooting half inch groups from the bench or empty Timmies cups offhand at 100 yards like with a 223, one of the 6.5mms or a heavy 308. Some folks can though.
 
for me top was 45-70 and 338 lapua not much boters me so far for recoil bench shoting i find 308 can suck out of a lightweight gun standing noting i tryed was like wow wish i coude aford a 9.3x62 and a 375 H&H heck even a 458 win mag for a fun thumper
im 5'7 170 pounds
 
nowarningshot said:
Recoil tolerance can be trained and overcome. It becomes normal, one learns to roll with it, instead of leaning into and tensing up. Is that a.tolerance or technique.
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This is very true. I just did another 65 rounds of 12ga slugs today - this time not the low recoil/managed recoil variety. Just regular velocity 12 ga 2.75" Federal LE Hydra Shok slugs. I agree with you - I got used to it fast and I left the range with ZERO sore shoulder. Leaning in, push/pull technique, firm placement against shoulder. No problems. I am gonna try 3" 12ga slugs next week.
 
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