ammo situation worsening.... and worsening..... and worsening ....... May 5, updated

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joe-nwt said:
Last week I had a peek at the ammo shelf at our local WM for the first time in about 6 months. Had more ammo than I ever remember seeing. Haven't looked at CT.

Harbl, If you are concerned that you don't "own" any property, why would you weight yourself down with 100s of lbs of copper? What if you have to pack up and leave suddenly?;)
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It's actually more like 400 lbs and I keep it because for the time being, I am confident that the rental agreement I have with my landlord (the government) is such that I can profit off actually owning and trading it. When that no longer becomes the case, it may be time to re-evaluate - but for the time being, even a tenant-farmer, there's good money to be made if you are clever about it.

Furthermore, all the things of value I have here make up such a small portion of my total wealth I really wouldn't be harmed to bad if I had to leave it behind. Most of my wealth is already well beyond the reach of those who would like to take it, it's really of little concern to me if I lose what I have here. I already have most of the things I value in a safe principality completely out of the reach of those in charge of this one. If I had to leave this very second, I really would be no worse for wear. (It's nice having a 6 month mod-given vacation from CGN - you can be VERY productive in securing your assets and moving them safely outside the grubby reach of the government).

Furthermore, just because you don't own the space your living in, doesn't mean you will be evicted suddenly and unexpectedly. Even slaves in the worst times of history had more security than that. If anything, real slaves can feel most secure in the supposed "ownership" rights they have been given by their masters. Those masters know they can extract the most from their slaves by throwing them a bone and giving them the illusion of their freedom - because slaves who believe they are free are far more productive and can generate so much more useful output for their masters than slaves who are bound against their will, made to labour by perpetual threats of violence. Just look at our taxation system - can you believe the majority of people in this country are not only more than willing to give up over half of the fruits of their labour, they are actually PROUD of it and think working harder to give their masters more is wise (that's "conservative" thinking right there)?

It's good to hear you have a good stock of ammo in your locale. I was going to drive around town to try to find some, but I'm glad I called ahead and didn't bother wasting my time.

Who knows, maybe with the warm weather, all the farmers looking to pop gophers did a run on all the Walmart's and CT's in Northern Calgary.

I have my doubts, though. At one Walmart I called, the sales rep was saying someone came in 2 weeks ago, told him he couldn't find Win555's in any sporting store or Walmart in town, bought over a dozen bricks and they haven't had any stock since... lucky guy - he beat me to it :)

Let's check back again in 3 months and see.

Do you live in the NWT, joe-nwt?
 
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harbl_the_cat said:
I'm taking my little girl on an ammo safari tonight.

If thing's are looking lean I might call my cousin up in Edmonton to pick up a bunch for me and I might make a weekend trip up.

Hopefully Calgary's doesn't have a higher concentration of survivalist nut-jobs, stocking up on ammo for the end of the world, than Edmonton does :rolleyes::rolleyes:
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Hey now!!!!! Easy on us survivalist nut jobs! You may need our help when the mutant zombie biker hordes come knocking at your door!
 
With all this panicking about ammo I have hoarded $1600 worth of various calibers to be sure I am stocked if anything does happen. For the cost and availability right now it does not hurt to have a nice cache in case there is a price spike or dry spell
 
Leviathan024 said:
With all this panicking about ammo I have hoarded $1600 worth of various calibers to be sure I am stocked if anything does happen. For the cost and availability right now it does not hurt to have a nice cache in case there is a price spike or dry spell
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Who's panicking this side of the border, at least?

Everything's fine :)

On a related note - remember what I said about sales reps vs sales managers? Read this, and keep in mind JR is the OWNER of two of the largest retail gun shops in the country and one of the biggest sponsors of CGN. I like JR - he tells things the way they are without being a sensationalist.

If a man who moves millions of dollars of product says "prices across the country will be going up," I take him VERY seriously.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...er-Sale-2013&p=8478752&viewfull=1#post8478752

Interestingly I was talking to the owner of Things Military and he said the exact same thing 2 months ago.

I think I've got it figured two possible contributors to why there's shortages down here, but not further up north:
1. Calgary is a white collar town and a large number shooters in the Calgary shooting community are high income professionals with high levels of disposable income.

2. Calgary is closer to the US, and I suspect the previous assertions might be valid that potentially, crafty Americans are driving up here, finding friends and relatives with PAL's, buying up everything, and illegally smuggling it into the US. Think about it - if you bought 1 single crate of Nork .223 for $450 up here, you could probably resell it for $1600 -$3200 in the US. We also have a huge number of businesses here that stock guns and ammo: 8 walmarts, 7 Canadian Tires, Things Military, The Shooting Edge, Calgary Shooting Centre, Proline, Wholesale Sports, Alberta Tactical Rifle (to name a few) - not many Canadian Cities can make similar claims. It's risky business and if you get caught it would probably royally suck, but if not, it's probably well worth the trip. Additionally, it's been a while, but I don't think the American border crossings in Southern Alberta are as hardcore as they are in BC and Ontario (anyone whose been down recently care to correct me?).

I'd be interested to see other near-border cities compare or have this dynamic.
 
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Ammunition continues to arrive however some styles are in short or zero supply. I did recently receive a memo from a major distributor indicating significant increase in ammunition prices as of 1 Apr 2013. ATK (Federal, CCI) just announced a 15 % increase on AE .223, 5.56 including the metal ammo version. Also 10% increase (promotional rimfire) 510C, AE5022C, AE22C and 745C. Also 4% increase on Power-Shok rifle...all loads. Shotgun ammo Black Cloud, Prairie Storm and Premium...no increase however Top Gun Target load up 6%, Game Load...up 7% and ammo can XM172-00AC 12 ga up 4%. Handgun ammo AE handgun all loads up 5%, Blazer handgun up 6% and ammo can 40 S&W up 6%. So after reading this you would think if we have orders in place (we do) that this would not effect those however this will be interpreted on a case by case basis by the individual distributor so even though we have a contract in place for lower prices they may not honor it. When we complain the answer is "if you don't want it at the higher price then no problem we will sell it to all the other dealers waiting for supply". I won't comment further about my feelings on this but I think you get my drift. Yes we are lookiing outside North America and already by are receiving European and Chines ammo. Phil.
 
P of PDent said:
Ammunition continues to arrive however some styles are in short or zero supply. I did recently receive a memo from a major distributor indicating significant increase in ammunition prices as of 1 Apr 2013. ATK (Federal, CCI) just announced a 15 % increase on AE .223, 5.56 including the metal ammo version. Also 10% increase (promotional rimfire) 510C, AE5022C, AE22C and 745C. Also 4% increase on Power-Shok rifle...all loads. Shotgun ammo Black Cloud, Prairie Storm and Premium...no increase however Top Gun Target load up 6%, Game Load...up 7% and ammo can XM172-00AC 12 ga up 4%. Handgun ammo AE handgun all loads up 5%, Blazer handgun up 6% and ammo can 40 S&W up 6%. So after reading this you would think if we have orders in place (we do) that this would not effect those however this will be interpreted on a case by case basis by the individual distributor so even though we have a contract in place for lower prices they may not honor it. When we complain the answer is "if you don't want it at the higher price then no problem we will sell it to all the other dealers waiting for supply". I won't comment further about my feelings on this but I think you get my drift. Yes we are lookiing outside North America and already by are receiving European and Chines ammo. Phil.
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Thanks for sharing, Phil!
 
P of PDent said:
Ammunition continues to arrive however some styles are in short or zero supply. I did recently receive a memo from a major distributor indicating significant increase in ammunition prices as of 1 Apr 2013. ATK (Federal, CCI) just announced a 15 % increase on AE .223, 5.56 including the metal ammo version. Also 10% increase (promotional rimfire) 510C, AE5022C, AE22C and 745C. Also 4% increase on Power-Shok rifle...all loads. Shotgun ammo Black Cloud, Prairie Storm and Premium...no increase however Top Gun Target load up 6%, Game Load...up 7% and ammo can XM172-00AC 12 ga up 4%. Handgun ammo AE handgun all loads up 5%, Blazer handgun up 6% and ammo can 40 S&W up 6%. So after reading this you would think if we have orders in place (we do) that this would not effect those however this will be interpreted on a case by case basis by the individual distributor so even though we have a contract in place for lower prices they may not honor it. When we complain the answer is "if you don't want it at the higher price then no problem we will sell it to all the other dealers waiting for supply". I won't comment further about my feelings on this but I think you get my drift. Yes we are lookiing outside North America and already by are receiving European and Chines ammo. Phil.
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And there you have it folks.
 
We will hold our ammo prices on existing ammunition and new stuff coming in at the old prices. When new higher price ammo comes in we may have to blend in prices from existing stock. I can honestly say we did not raise our prices due to high interest or current demand but simply placed our normal mark up based on cost only. In some case we lowered our mark up to be competitive with some competitors. The USA has a double whammy right now...no or almost no ammo and now higher prices based on high demand only. They must have been taking pricing 101 courses from the oil companies who regularly increase the pump price just before a long weekend...like right now. Phil.
 
P of PDent said:
We will hold our ammo prices on existing ammunition and new stuff coming in at the old prices. When new higher price ammo comes in we may have to blend in prices from existing stock. I can honestly say we did not raise our prices due to high interest or current demand but simply placed our normal mark up based on cost only. In some case we lowered our mark up to be competitive with some competitors. The USA has a double whammy right now...no or almost no ammo and now higher prices based on high demand only. They must have been taking pricing 101 courses from the oil companies who regularly increase the pump price just before a long weekend...like right now. Phil.
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Personally, I think yours and any other business brave enough to venture into firearms retail industry is perfectly justified in raising their prices as distributor costs increase. That many (like yourself) don't try to game their prices based on demand to try to hit maximum return I think is really considerate to consumers and reflective of a respectable business but personally, I think completely unnecessary.

From my experience, the margins on guns and ammo is razor thin and anyone who complains about price increases are just plain ungrateful and unappreciative of just how tricky and risky it is to run an actual business that sells guns and ammo. The problem is many firearm consumers are spoiled by the broader Canadian consumer based economy and falsely think the retail firearms industry should run like all other consumer based industries, with some inalienable mechanism of price and supply stability. What I think most people don't understand is that the amount of overhead, regulations, volatility (both market and political) in the industry makes trying to run a retail firearms business incredibly difficult. All the cries about "gouging" I think really reflect this.

Simply put, a gun and ammo shop cannot and never will operate like Walmart, and guns and ammo price and supply will always be wildly volatile. The onus is on CONSUMERS, not retailers to alter their personal habits to ensure lowest personal cost and highest supply stability.

Unfortunately, Canada is such a socialist indoctrinated country, these principals are completely foreign to the masses.
 
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retailers have to raise prices, as they will be selling less and still need to cover monthly costs. its how you survive in business. I am surprised retailers are not increasing prices of old stock, which they cannot replace, gun shops in the U.S. have had to do this, Canadian gun shops need to an aren't just yet.
 
dizzy said:
retailers have to raise prices, as they will be selling less and still need to cover monthly costs. its how you survive in business. I am surprised retailers are not increasing prices of old stock, which they cannot replace, gun shops in the U.S. have had to do this, Canadian gun shops need to an aren't just yet.
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But when there gets to be normal levels again you wont see the prices fall back down.
 
onmywaytoimpact said:
Thats why you stocked up as well as you were able when BO was reelected, right? eventually I will pay the higher price, but not for some time yet...
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I agree - that's why I consider tangibles an investment.

As a private owner, you have few to none of the expenses and liabilities a retailer has. When I go out and buy a case of ammo I don't have any staff, insurance, rent, utilities, advertisements, business loans or other associated expenses with my physical possession of that case. Retailers have to cover those reoccurring costs in order to stay in business. I take the case of ammo, throw it in the cellar in my basement and forget I even have it.

Add to that the guarantee of inflation under our monetary paradigm ALL of the recurring costs vendors have to pay eventually also go up in cost. Better yet - that results in a general trend of higher price for ammunition in the future. Simply put - our entire monetary system is built on the assumption that tomorrow, there will be more currency in existence than there is today. Understanding that - it is practically impossible for consumable, tangible, durable goods (like ammunition) to have linear expansion of supply the way currency does or for them to revert to the price of some time in the past. Over a long time line, currency NEVER appreciates - and that is critical to understand.

For me, not having to have paid recurring costs businesses do, if I buy ammo at the March 2013 price, I can price that ammo at whatever the going market rate is - which I think is heavily correlated to inflation. This goes both ways - and if the price is lower than the price I bought it at (due to some unpredictable market anomaly), provided I don't need to come up with funds right away, I can hold it. If the price is higher - I have incentive to (and every intention to) sell it at the elevated price.

I don't know which way it will go - but I take the risk - and that's why I think it's nonsense to accuse people of "gouging.
 
dizzy said:
retailers have to raise prices, as they will be selling less and still need to cover monthly costs. its how you survive in business. I am surprised retailers are not increasing prices of old stock, which they cannot replace, gun shops in the U.S. have had to do this, Canadian gun shops need to an aren't just yet.
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This is why I think you're starting to see empty store shelves.

I just went to another CT over lunch - same deal as the last one I went to. No .22, back orders of 30-30, .308, or 30-06, a few boxes of .223 left, all the bulk 12 gauge is gone.

I talked to Bill at Things Military (he has a LOT of inventory) - he was saying he's getting a TONNE of American's asking him for orders. I mentioned my thoughts on American's buying ammo in Canada and he said it wouldn't surprise him - Calgary has LOTS of American's in it too.

I am quite certain to maintain inventory, you'll see CT and Walmart start jacking up the price, hardcore.
 
UFA in Oyen alberta has 22lr ammo on sale folks, lots of it, and down to 17 a brick for good HP gopher ammo. Should be fun to see how long its lasts.
 
dizzy said:
retailers have to raise prices, as they will be selling less and still need to cover monthly costs. its how you survive in business. I am surprised retailers are not increasing prices of old stock, which they cannot replace, gun shops in the U.S. have had to do this, Canadian gun shops need to an aren't just yet.
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I couldn't help but think of BCFerries when I read that...their answer to low revenue is to raise fares and when they see further declines in ridership raise them again. But the good think about ammunition manufacturers is that there is more than one and competition will keep the prices in line after Obama stops acting like the best firearm's salesman that ever existed.
 
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