Ammo testing procedure

[J_Scott]

So guys, I sighted it in with blazer, and after 9 rounds to set & confirm zero I went straight to the testing. This was testing the cheap ammo first, I'll go to the match stuff next time:

Shooting CZ452 varmint fitted with a Sightron SII 6-24 X42mm in Warne Tac rings.

Notes:

• I didn't pull any shots so I can't count any as fliers.
• 5 shot groups
• No cleaning until after the day was over
• Each group was shot relatively quickly, about a minute wait between groups (except #3)
• POA was bottom left corner of red square.
• Shot at 50m
• I used caldwell bags front and back
• Elevation was 328m and temp was -6

ROUND #!:

Shot in this order (someone said shoot lead first before copper):

1. top left: Blazer Bulk
2. top right: CCI standard
3. middle: Win 333 bulk
4. bottom left: AR tactical
5. Bottom right: Minimags.

ROUND #2:
Shot in reverse, same speed as #1

1. Bottom right: Minimags
2. bottom left: AR tactical
3. middle: Win 333 bulk
4. top right: CCI standard
5. top left: Blazer bulk

ROUND#3:
Notes: this group I waited 2-3 minutes between groups
I also adjusted my windage to center the POI closer to POA.

1. top right: CCI standard
2. middle: Win 333 bulk
3. bottom left: AR tactical
4. Bottom right: Minimags
5. top left: Blazer bulk

A couple of questions, I get it would open up a bit, but being cold and having a varmint barrel I was a bit unimpressed. Also, the weirdest thing was on a target I don't have here at the end of the day I noticed my POI shifted WAY left, like an entire inch. Any reason for that?

 

[Canadiankeeper]

Blazer was one of the better groups lol

That happens a lot it seems.

I would test more then one group per ammo though. 3-5 groups for a good idea.

Likely just a wind shift you didn't notice. That or the barrel is fouling up and its coming into its self... My annie would shoot a good inch right the first 10-15 shots after cleaning. Then re center its self.

 

[J_Scott]

Blazer was one of the better groups lol

That happens a lot it seems.

I would test more then one group per ammo though. 3-5 groups for a good idea.

Likely just a wind shift you didn't notice. That or the barrel is fouling up and its coming into its self... My annie would shoot a good inch right the first 10-15 shots after cleaning. Then re center its self.

Good idea. next time out I'll try a couple of different things. I probably should have shot 5 successive 5 rnd groups with each type of ammo but it was just damn cold.

 

[yodave]

Good idea. next time out I'll try a couple of different things. I probably should have shot 5 successive 5 rnd groups with each type of ammo but it was just damn cold.

don't mix the ammo, different lubes react differently with each other. shoot 5 5 shot groups with the same ammo, run a few dry patches through the barrel and then swap ammo, no need to clean the barrel, just wipe out the excessive lube.
I've mixed ammo without cleaning and worked my way up to 2 inch groups no matter what I shot, cleaned the barrel good and started over and nothing went over 3/4 inch.......

 

[Hunt78]

My 452 hates cci but loves federal target in the 325 box my lgs had them for $21 a box so I left with 6000 rnds. I haven't made the "my .22 shoots .5" all day" yet but it's only due to one or two shots. I can usually make 4 out of 5 target but that last one is probably my fault. Try the feds.

 

[RabidM4U5]

A couple of questions, I get it would open up a bit, but being cold and having a varmint barrel I was a bit unimpressed. Also, the weirdest thing was on a target I don't have here at the end of the day I noticed my POI shifted WAY left, like an entire inch. Any reason for that?

Off the bat, no offense, but looking at the ammo you were testing... what were you expecting?? As you've shown, that is all I'd expect out of a decent rimfire for the ammo used (better, actually!). This whole Bull Barrel is more accurate than a Sporter barrel thing that gets perpetuated in the rimfire world is nothing but a myth in my experience. To demonstrate my point, here are a couple shameful targets shot with a custom fit straight 0.9" Shilen barrel on a 64 Anschütz MSR...







You might begin to think I'm just a bad shot.. but that would be ignorant of the significant impact ammo/tuning has on obtainable rimfire accuracy. The rifle hammered with RWS R-50. Yes, R-100 is shown here shooting better than the most recent results, I unfortunately had to send this barrel back for repair due to shipping damage and it lost about an inch overall length, thereby changing the harmonics. Point is, I'm doing really no better than you with a match grade barrel on an Annie action... such is rimfire. I'm ordering a tuner for this rifle... if you're serious about accuracy, you'd do the same. Otherwise, test every brand and lot of ammo you can get your hands on and something should be compatible with the naked barrel. Top notch accuracy with a rimfire is simply much more involved than "being a good shooter" with a good rifle and ammo.... All of these components can be good in their own right..yet.... accuracy will suck if the components are not "in tune".

 

[Canadiankeeper]

don't mix the ammo, different lubes react differently with each other. shoot 5 5 shot groups with the same ammo, run a few dry patches through the barrel and then swap ammo, no need to clean the barrel, just wipe out the excessive lube.
I've mixed ammo without cleaning and worked my way up to 2 inch groups no matter what I shot, cleaned the barrel good and started over and nothing went over 3/4 inch.......

I honestly had never though of this! Makes sense.

Off the bat, no offense, but looking at the ammo you were testing... what were you expecting?? As you've shown, that is all I'd expect out of a decent rimfire for the ammo used (better, actually!). This whole Bull Barrel is more accurate than a Sporter barrel thing that gets perpetuated in the rimfire world is nothing but a myth in my experience. To demonstrate my point, here are a couple shameful targets shot with a custom fit straight 0.9" Shilen barrel on a 64 Anschütz MSR...

where were you when I started a thread stating that. I said for guns under 1000 Bull barrel is a myth lmao. I got torn up.

 

[RabidM4U5]

where were you when I started a thread stating that. I said for guns under 1000 Bull barrel is a myth lmao. I got torn up.

I jumped in there for ya

If two barrels were of equal quality (not custom match quality as per your question) but factory production grade barrels, there should be no difference in accuracy potential based on contour alone (one is heavy, one is "sporter".) What is most likely observed is that the lighter barrel will be "pickier" and shoot fewer loads well compared to the heavy barrel which will shoot a wider variety of ammunition acceptably. Either barrel shooting it's pet load will be just as accurate. It is actually easier to "tune" a lighter contour barrel, and all of this boils down to barrel harmonics and vibration.

Throwing in an update, straight contour barrels are easiest to tune, and speaking of them, making them too stiff/heavy works against the tuner. Tapered barrels are twitchy to tune, but it can be done. Plus, even the expensive barrels/rifles will throw shots far and wide when they don't like the ammo you're feeding them, it's not just a cheap rifle thing.

Now let's throw manufacturing inconsistency at this quality grade into the mix any one barrel of either contour may be more or less accurate than the next.

This guy gets what I'm getting at!

Also lets remind everyone I'm just

have just been hearing well a HB is a lot better, because they are better. Arguments lately. When in fact there are SO many more important factors into a 22 rifle and a heavy barrel doesn't automatically make a rifle more accurate. I had a guy at the range try to tell me his savage mk2 HB was better then any CZ while he was grouping over an inch at 50...

 

[J_Scott]

haha, well I wasn't unimpressed with the first sets of groups, more the fact it started to drift POI by over an inch after shooting just 75 rounds. But the comments here seemed to explain that. Maybe I just have had super accurate semi's, but the 597 I used to have and the current 10/22 Target Tactical VLEH shot groups similar to this. However, I think the guys make a lot of sense, I'm going to try a couple testing procedures as recommended here.

I was under the impression a bull barrel isn't more accurate necessarily, however it's less likely to drift the POI after shooting successive groups. IE, my Tikka T3 Tactical stays on target way better during a day of shooting than my hunting Rem 700 did. Maybe this doesn't affect rimfire as much, do I not even have to worry about letting the barrel cool at all since it's rimfire and Heavy?

 

[Lead hammer]

haha, well I wasn't unimpressed with the first sets of groups, more the fact it started to drift POI by over an inch after shooting just 75 rounds. But the comments here seemed to explain that. Maybe I just have had super accurate semi's, but the 597 I used to have and the current 10/22 Target Tactical VLEH shot groups similar to this. However, I think the guys make a lot of sense, I'm going to try a couple testing procedures as recommended here.

I was under the impression a bull barrel isn't more accurate necessarily, however it's less likely to drift the POI after shooting successive groups. IE, my Tikka T3 Tactical stays on target way better during a day of shooting than my hunting Rem 700 did. Maybe this doesn't affect rimfire as much, do I not even have to worry about letting the barrel cool at all since it's rimfire and Heavy?

Keep shooting it, I bet accuracy will improve still.

 

[KND]

My experience with CZ 452 is very picky with ammo, you won't see full potential with CCI blazer or other bull packs ammo in 500 count.

Go to tesro canada's website and order their mid range sampler pack and start from there.

You can also adjust the action and barrel screws's torque on cz 452 varmint to get a smaller grouping without any bedding and such.

 

[silverfoxdj]

My experience with CZ 452 is very picky with ammo, you won't see full potential with CCI blazer or other bull packs ammo in 500 count.

Go to tesro canada's website and order their mid range sampler pack and start from there.

You can also adjust the action and barrel screws's torque on cz 452 varmint to get a smaller grouping without any bedding and such.

Thanks for the Tesro info did not know they did that..

 

[J_Scott]

Thanks for the Tesro info did not know they did that..

Me neither. Thanks KND

 

[J_Scott]

Last question guys. Do you even need to worry about barrel heat with a heavy barrel .22? Can I just keep shooting groups or do I need to wait between? If so, how long do you guys wait?

Also, ordered that sample pack KND, also got a couple bricks of SK Standard+ to make the shipping cost worth it.

 

[Tesro Inc]

Hey guys,
Asmir here from Tesro. Thanks for your support. Also here couple of things to keep in mind.

Heat: Yes do not blast though the groups, especially if the barrel is clamped as it will overheat. I have been burned by this mistake many times. no pun intended.

Vibration: Make sure there is no residual vibration left from shot to shot. I have tested with Scatt connected when I was testing out of the test rig and it took about 10 seconds to get the vibration to dissipate after each shot. This will depend greatly on your setup, but the more rigid it is, the more the vibration will be an issue. The difference in the groups produced was mind blowing, but I also did not believe it until I did see it with my own eyes.

Cleaning: I will not be adding any more theories to this. Internet is full of great articles and opinions on this topic. However I will say that you should be consistent and so whatever your cleaning regiment is or lack there of of, stick with it.

Different brands: When switching the brands make sure that you either clean the gun or get some shots though until the groups settle. Different brands use different lubricant and it will affect your groups when you switch brands. I personally shoot about 3-5 shots to settle for each new lot, and maybe 5-10 when I change brands. However you rifle will be different.

Consistency; I think this speaks for itself. But do yourself a favour and not compare apples and oranges. Make sure that your setup is the same for all of your testing, so that you can really compare the ammo. Otherwise you are comparing the ammo and the method as well.

Happy Testing. (One of my favorite things to do, especially when I find some good lots.)

Regards
Asmir

 

[J_Scott]

Thanks Asmir, Looking forward to trying that ammo I just bought from you guys.

I brought the CZ out again today, shot 5 to acclimate, then 5x5rnd groups, then 5 rounds after I was done, with a wipe between brands. Averaged just over half an inch running both blazers and 555, couldn't believe how good this thing is with cheap ammo. Even the 10 round group of before/after shots came out to just over an inch. Had it not been so cold I'd have tested the Minimags, AR, Green & Browning comp ones as well.

Now my next issue... figuring out why my 10/22 VLEH doesn't shoot (light/non-existent strikes). ugh.