Amount of Powder vs Books

DocBurN

DocBurN

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Reloading 44 Magnum on my new press

I am following the information in two of my books


  • Lyman Reloading Handbook - 48th Edition - 2002
  • Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading - 4th Edition

using Bullets: 44 Cal 240gr Flat Point (.429) BERRY's made in usa
using Powder: Winchester Ball Powder 296

Question 1: What is your reloading bible.. the one that you refer the most regarding specific powder amount (gr. / fps) on specific caliber ? Something wrong with my choice.. Hornady 4th edition. The amount of grains seem to be close but not exactly the same from a Book to another.

Question 2: I didn't tried it yet and decided, why not ask experienced reloaders what they think.. for my situation.. about 23gr == should average 1650 fps. Too close to max load (24.x gr)? I want to get a good power/fps without being too close to a dangerous amount.

Thank you very much for your help & info & opinions

DocBurN
 
You can work up through the charge from minimum to max (or till you see pressure signs) with the data from any known manual. If one manual says min 50 max 55gr Varget and another says mine 51 max 55.5gr Varget either one is ok. It's not like you can't trust Lyman, but Speers manual is ok. The reason for the difference is two things usually, one they used different pressure testing guns possibly in different places, altitude, weather etc. The other is although it is a 165gr bullet and same powder they may have a different case and or primer. Their testing with their specific combo and test gun gave said results while staying in allowable pressures. And if you were to use the same calbire, bullet weight and powder you could work up a load with either starting charge and end up with safe ammo within the min-max spread of either manual.

Feet per second in the manual is only an estimate since your gun and other components may not be exactly the same. If they got 2500 fps in their test, you might get 2430 with the same load or 2550fps. Only using a chronograph will measure and tell you for sure what your load yields.

Please note the powder and bullet info/amount above was just made up for reference only.
 
You may have more problems than you think. Go to Berrys website and see what they say about using plated bullets and max velocities. Then see what happens to plated bullets when used in magnum where a heavy crimp is required. Look into this before you start worrying about powder charges. Lots of info out there re reloading plated bullets and plenty of posts on CGN as well. Its not something to be taken lightly. Read up before u lpad your first round.
dB
 
Sir,

I just got the Hornady 8th edition, and am not fussy on it. I much prefer the Nosler 6th edition, but my Lyman cast bullet handbook 3rd edition from 1980 is as good as either for most loads, better for some others. All of the reference material is compiled by different labs, so it will never be exactly the same, but similar for load to load.

I shoot plenty of 44 magnum, but at the slow end of the scale. I am working on shooting a 200 grain bullet from a 44 Special case in my Ruger Super Blackhawk. I look for 800 ft/sec.

As stated previously look for signs of high pressure and be safe. That stinging in your hand after the shooting is over is why I shoot with such little powder!

Good luck.


stewbud
 
about the choice of powder and bullets.. i had put my trust in the owner of the reloading shop where i bought the Dillon press.. the only info i had was the factory remington 44 magnum i was shooting. i remember it was 185gr bullets.. the owner told me it was more common for 44 mag to shoot higher gr bullets.. ex the 240gr he sold me.

I don't put my faith blindly on 1 guy but i wanted to buy what was "recommanded" to me so i can triple check the info base on something.. a specific bullet, a specific powder brand, etc..

Also i don't want to max load them.. i am aiming at average between min and max regarding books and what i read for 44 mag.. its somewhere between 20 and 24 (rounded numbers). But i'll keep getting informed before pressing my first round!
 
also i should add.. i got a huge stash of books (never opened yet).. ABCs of Reloading - Lee Precision - 2004, Speer Reloading Manual - 12th Edition - 1995, etc..


and its not shot out of a pistol or revolver yet.. i am feeding a rossi ranch hand who is concidered a rifle over here.. i heard (not confirmed) that i could go with the 44 magnum "rifle" information and push it safely a little more than a pistol 44 mag
 
If your reloading with WIN 296 you should check the website "http://www.wwpowder.com/" and see their loading specs;


There max load published with their powder for a 240grn JHP (all they list) is 24.0 grains of 296 with a starting load of 23.0 Most all the powder manufacturers have their own published data for safe loads with their product. I regularly use the lyman 49th edition but always check online as a good back up.

Good luck!
 
Berrys are NOT FMJ bullets. They are plated and are loaded to lead spec. It doesnt matter if used in a handgun or rifle. the reloading concerns with the bullets remains the same. If your dealer sold you the bullets claiming they are FMJ or "just like" FMJ, he is sadly mistaken and should not be considered as a source of reliable info especially when it comes to reloading. You stated you are using W296 which is for loads on the upper end of the scale. You cannot simply reduce the loads with this powder as I am sure your dealer has stated to you. Loads can only be reduced by a very small percentage which you will find on the container or manufacturers site. 240g is the ideal bullet weight, but it is the type of bullet being used which is the concern.
 
W296 Powder--- Note Published that you do not reduce W296 below published Data (in most books)
in Winchester Book--- Data Says Do Not to reduce at all ---- and to use a heavy Crimp

Berry bullets -- what do they say about velocity and or a heavy crimp ???

for a first time/new reloader W231 or Unique would have been a better choice for 44 mag --- you can go mild to wild and it would cost less

Check out
h tt p://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp
 
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According to Hodgdon.. the only info in the 240gr is..
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So 23.0 should be ideal..
Max being 24.0

Dunno if those "Berry's" fit in the 240 gr. NOS JHP
 
I could also simplify my question..

Working with those..

44 Cal 240gr Flat Point (.429) BERRY's made in usa
Winchester Ball Powder 296

What would be the safe option, amount of gr. ?
 
The best place to find up to date loading info is off the powder maker's websites. Powders change lot-to-lot (Hodgden Varget is a great example) and in some cases, the manufacturing source changes. Bullet makers will give you adequate and safe loads, but the powder properties are what matter most.
 
Again, that data is for a Jacketed bullet NOT a plated. They are not the same. Seeing as some have more questions and need info handed to them instead of doing research on their own, here is the link to the Berrys FAQ page. Read it for yourself. http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq.aspx?n=271718 . Further investigation if u care to do that on your own will lead to information on the problems with roll crimping plated bullets. Disregard this information if you wish but proceed with caution. Having used plated bullets in magnum calibers before, I can tell you that they pose a danger to the shooter AND those standing beside you(in the case of a revolver) when firing. You will be responsible for the outcome so do as you think it right.
 
daBear said:
Again, that data is for a Jacketed bullet NOT a plated. They are not the same. Seeing as some have more questions and need info handed to them instead of doing research on their own, here is the link to the Berrys FAQ page. Read it for yourself. http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq.aspx?n=271718 . Further investigation if u care to do that on your own will lead to information on the problems with roll crimping plated bullets. Disregard this information if you wish but proceed with caution. Having used plated bullets in magnum calibers before, I can tell you that they pose a danger to the shooter AND those standing beside you when firing. You will be responsible for the outcome so do as you think it right.
Click to expand...

i dont mind doing the research myself.. its the first time i have to do it (new reloader, new press).. so i came here for some pointers.. my last question was to find out if i got 500 useless bullets that i should just trash and buy another kind.. or can i make something SAFE work out of those. i am reading all i can.. bought books.. browse the web.. and that include posting here too
 
The bullets are fine if used in non magnum loads. You can load them to 44Spl levels or lower non magnum velocity (less than 1250fps according to Berry's) and they will be fine providing you dont use a heavy crimp(you will have to crimp in a lever gun if using plated). The powder you selected is not for mild-mid range loads, but for the hi end of the power scale. Save the W296 for when you are loading full house loads with a JACKETED bullet, but for the mid range stuff, you would be best to select a different powder. In a revolver this is vital need to know stuff. In a RanchHand, at least there are no gaps for the metal bits to come flying out the side and everything will go out the muzzle. But when using a rifle with magnum loaded plated bullets, I have actually heard the bullet peeling and separating while traveling downrange. Spooky sound and totally useless for accuracy.
 
First, thank you for the info.. even tho new reloader seem to be a pain to experienced people on CGN.. we all need to start somewhere..i got reading and research to do.. i know it

From Berry's..

Jacketed Bullets: Generally are most expensive but can be shot at magnum velocities and require less cleaning than Cast bullets.

Plated Bullets: Not as expensive as Jacketed and cleaner than lead but you'll want to stay away from magnum velocities when loading plated bullets.

My guess is.. its not as simple as to just go lower than 23.0gr and use those materials anyway.. what a waste.. a got 500 of those plated bullets..

I'll change material on the next order.. that is what i was suggested to get by the reloader/seller.. my mistake was to trust another reloader.. I'll get Jacketed bullets or change powder.. and maybe find what is considered non-magnum velocity and still use what i got, W296 with plated bullet with an extra low (safe) fps
 
Dont stop reading at the first FAQ. Continue reading the other points as well. For example, the "How Fast" has this response
Velocities depend on the caliber, but as a rule of thumb, we recommend you don't shoot our plated bullets over 1250 feet-per-second. Our 44's actually shoot best around 1150 fps. 45's are generally good at 850-900 fps. Our bullets are not recommended for magnum velocities over 1250fps unless the bullet description denotes a thick plated bullet with a higher listed maximum for velocity. .. That would have addressed the issue earlier.
Stay away from using W296 for medium loads as it is not designed for them. Getting another powder is less expensive and safer to use for milder loads. Your choices are many, such as W231, Titegroup, Unique, all of which can be loaded at non magnum velocities and compatible with plated bullets.
dB
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Thank for the info.. Im gonna have a word with the reloader/store owner regarding this situation.. Maybe trade bullets for jacketed if he is not trying to tell me.. Nah.. Plated is all fine.. Reload anyway (no trade/refund) or as suggested.. Get new powder
 
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