AMP annealing guys testing the salt bath annealing method

MartyK2500 said:
Looking forward to reading your annealing information blogs,
Make sure to link them up here so we can know when to look out for them.
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I don't believe that is allowed by CGN policies towards non-supporting businesses. "BattleRife" is my personal moniker, and I have typically avoided doing anything that could be considered promotion under this handle.
 
Salt annealing

686 Shooter said:
I'm no metallurgist but what is the difference if you heat it up with induction heating, a flame, or hot salts? They will all get a metal to a certain temp for a certain amount of time.

But I am a skeptic and don't put much weight on info from someone who has a good reason to be biased until I see some info from an independent source to back it up. This report says exactly what I thought it would before I even clicked the link.

Expecting the AMP Annealer people to say any different is like expecting Lexus to put out a commercial telling you that their vehicles will get you to the grocery store but so will a Chevrolet Spark for a lot less money.

I would love an AMP Annealer but my budget won't allow it. I'm sure it does a better job than salt annealing. But the salt annealing works for me just fine..
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Back in the 70's I toured a large heat treat shop in Kitchener. They did heat treating for all kinds of industry and they used salt baths to do it. There might be a case for the heat to travel up the case body but that would be dependent on immersion amount. Heat travels through the brass by conduction so it doesn't care where the heat comes from. An incorrect flame adjustment can do the same thing. I know!
However I use a flame and it works ok along with a temperature indicator of some flavour.
 
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Boomer said:
A disadvantage of the AMP system is that you are required to purchase cartridge specific pilots at $31/ea which gets expensive if you have say cartridges from a half dozen cartridge families to anneal; eg .22 Hornet, .223, .308, .300 Winchester, .404 Jeffery, .416 Rigby, even if there is commonality within a cartridge family such as .243, .260 Remington, 7-08, .308, .358 etc. Given a purchase price of nearly $1800, which poses a hardship for many, the AMT should include everything needed to put it to work.
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You think they should ship around 150 pilots or whatever it is with the machine?

$1800 is expensive yeah. But if you can afford that, then buying a few pilots is nothing. I definitely did not get into serious hours of shooting to save $. Just 2 or 3 scopes can cost $10,000 in this game. I could shoot over $1000 in ammo in a month. $500 in gas a month goes to range trips and matches. The AMP machine just gets lost in all the other costs and goes unnoticed.
 
Longboat said:
You think they should ship around 150 pilots or whatever it is with the machine?

$1800 is expensive yeah. But if you can afford that, then buying a few pilots is nothing. I definitely did not get into serious hours of shooting to save $. Just 2 or 3 scopes can cost $10,000 in this game. I could shoot over $1000 in ammo in a month. $500 in gas a month goes to range trips and matches. The AMP machine just gets lost in all the other costs and goes unnoticed.
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Those guides probably cost $5 to manufacture...one should get at least 3-5 common guides with the system
 
Longboat said:
You think they should ship around 150 pilots or whatever it is with the machine?

$1800 is expensive yeah. But if you can afford that, then buying a few pilots is nothing. I definitely did not get into serious hours of shooting to save $. Just 2 or 3 scopes can cost $10,000 in this game. I could shoot over $1000 in ammo in a month. $500 in gas a month goes to range trips and matches. The AMP machine just gets lost in all the other costs and goes unnoticed.
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No, but pilots for the 5 most common cartridges could be included, .223, .22-250 .308, .30/06, and the nonWeatherby 2.5" belted magnums or perhaps the customer could choose which 5 pilots he wants included with his purchase. For the guys that have to watch each purchase they make, the salt bath system potentially produces uniformity that is equal to the AMTs, for 10% of the cost. Even if a small compressor with a blower chuck attachment to dry wet brass was added to the price of the Ballistic Recreations kit, its pretty attractive.

I have S&B, Night Force, Khales, and Leupold glass, Near scope mounts, custom rifles with McMillan stocks, a Giraud case trimmer, and a decent selection of powders, bullets, and thousands of pieces of various rifle brass, some small some large so I know about cost. But when it comes time to lay down my hard earned cash, a consideration of value enters the selection process. There just isn't $1800 worth of component value in the AMT system, you can make your own induction annealer using instructions from the internet and the parts from Ebay for about $100. If I really believed that induction annealing was better than salt bath annealing, I would probably purchase an Annie Induction Annealer for $500 USD, which requires no pilots, and has a lifetime warranty.
 
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rgv said:
I disagree with your conclusion that it is for looks.

I have (access to) an AMP, and get low SD/ES and my primer pockets fail long before my necks do.

Two high volume competitive PRS/F shooters I shoot with use the salt bath, and they get low SD/ES and their case necks also outlast the primer pockets.

Being that conisistent neck tension and life are the objectives of annealing, my own conclusion is that it works just fine.
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Bartell is far too intelligent to believe that; he's just hoping his customers do.
 
I like annealing with the AMP. 4 year old son sitting on my knee, pushing the start button. I see it as an investment in family time :cool: and the convenience is terrific. Anneal a dozen cases in two minutes, let them air cool while you screw the sizer die into the press and you're loading them in minutes with powder
 
rgv said:
I disagree with your conclusion that it is for looks.

I have (access to) an AMP, and get low SD/ES and my primer pockets fail long before my necks do.

Two high volume competitive PRS/F shooters I shoot with use the salt bath, and they get low SD/ES and their case necks also outlast the primer pockets.

Being that conisistent neck tension and life are the objectives of annealing, my own conclusion is that it works just fine.
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The more I read this the more it makes sense.
Doesn't matter if the anneal process isn't perfect or spot on to the single HV digit,
If your SD/ES stay low during brass life, and primer pockets fail before necks, there is not extra incentive to hunt that perfect annealing, this is where salts will do the job for 10-15% of the price of an AMP.
 
MartyK2500 said:
The more I read this the more it makes sense.
Doesn't matter if the anneal process isn't perfect or spot on to the single HV digit,
If your SD/ES stay low during brass life, and primer pockets fail before necks, there is not extra incentive to hunt that perfect annealing, this is where salts will do the job for 10-15% of the price of an AMP.
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No way Marty. The AMP is the best. We both use it and we both keep winning sniper matches. Nobody could out-snipe the Lonboat last Sunday and we got 1st and 2nd two weeks ago. You won the 1st match of the year as well and I was top 3. The AMP is the only the thing we do the same. We would be shooting all over the place and finishing at the bottom without the AMP haha...
 
He said it was the new $4000 scope ..but I think its because I gave him a ride or two from the butts .I am going to make walk next time ..lol .Great shooting by the way . I am just getting used to using the salt bath method and was pretty impressed with it actually.
 
todbartell said:
I like annealing with the AMP. 4 year old son sitting on my knee, pushing the start button. I see it as an investment in family time :cool: and the convenience is terrific. Anneal a dozen cases in two minutes, let them air cool while you screw the sizer die into the press and you're loading them in minutes with powder
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Also fun to be in moose camp annealing in the wall tent via generator power :)
 
chalkriver2 said:
He said it was the new $4000 scope ..but I think its because I gave him a ride or two from the butts .I am going to make walk next time ..lol .Great shooting by the way . I am just getting used to using the salt bath method and was pretty impressed with it actually.
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Haha I saw him on the back of your truck there. A $4000 scope definitely doesn't hurt! The man knows what he is doing for sure. Goes out with minimalist equipment and is always scoring very high. Hell of a shooter you and him both.
 
I've been following this thread from the start. I use the home made rotating cake pan blowtorch method to anneal. I anneal maybe every second reload if I remember to. From the Labradar my loads are 40 fps from fastest to slowest. If you have something that is working for you, by all means use it.
Going way OT. I'm thankful for the rides. What the folks on the opposite relays from me didn't see was me having to use a cane to slowly get up off the ground with. My lower back is messed and I'd be lying on the mound in pain with my back muscles spasmed if I moved wrong during the match.
The minimalist gear comes from years of shooting Service Rifle where everything is on you for the day. And $$$ on a higher end scope hurts to buy but is sooo nice to look through and helps in the long run.
At the end of the day, whatever way you load, whatever way you shoot, whatever equipment you use and your own talent and skills as a shooter all show up on the target and the BS and bravado come to a quick end on the score sheet for all to see.
 
No I did not know you hurt yourself that bad. Good job working through. The first match I did last year I shot with a torn muscle at the bottom of my right rib. Man it sucked.

I like the way you do things. And glad you got a new scope.

Back on topic obviously the old school simple method for annealing works good for you. I'm not going to tell you to do anything different haha.
 
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