An impromptu lesson on rifle shooting

yeah, great, also watch the difference on your hits.

Honestly: lose that stupid AFG. It doesn't do you any good.

It's always interesting, when people show up for a rifle class with foregrips or AFG's installed. After the first 50 rds or so we compare the targets, and pretty much every time the guys with the foregrips and AFG's have their hits spread low and hey, because they push or pull on it.

There's no real reason to use this kind of stuff.

But then again: each to their own, or however the saying in english goes.
 
Kampfhamster said:
yeah, great, also watch the difference on your hits.

Honestly: lose that stupid AFG. It doesn't do you any good.

It's always interesting, when people show up for a rifle class with foregrips or AFG's installed. After the first 50 rds or so we compare the targets, and pretty much every time the guys with the foregrips and AFG's have their hits spread low and hey, because they push or pull on it.

There's no real reason to use this kind of stuff.

But then again: each to their own, or however the saying in english goes.
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An interesting point. I was considering pulling my foregrip off my AR and seeing if there was a difference. I find that I circumvent the foregrip a lot and end up moving to the magwell, which I also do not like doing.

I feel like the fore grip is impeding what my body is trying to do naturally.
 
Kampfhamster said:
Honestly: lose that stupid AFG. It doesn't do you any good.

It's always interesting, when people show up for a rifle class with foregrips or AFG's installed.

There's no real reason to use this kind of stuff.
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I agree completely, fore grips have there role in CQB and on shorter barreled weapons, but they have no place on full length rifle
 
Just do a short test: shoot 10 rds standing, 10 rds kneeling and 10 rds prone, once with the foregrip and once without. Use a plain target without bullseye. When you're done shooting compare where the majority of your bullets went.

The problem with foregrips is that they only work from one shooting position. As soon as you go prone they're useless. Why one should bolt a piece of equipment to your rifle that you can only use for certain positions is beyond me. When not using one it's also easier to find a natural and relaxed shooting position.
 
For me, the main reason to use a hand stop, foregrip, AFG etc... is to index my hand in the same place the majority of the time. Of corse you have to adapt to the position you are in, but I find have a tactile index point for my hand keeps me more consistent through the shooting process and a variety of manipulations.
 
I agree. I use an AFG on my 14.5 as an index point for off hand and urban prone. On my rifle length upper with smooth handguard, I use the little sling swivel stud. Same indexing effect.

For prone and kneeling I tend to grip the magwell but I like my support hand forward for O/H, especially when moving and shooting. YMMV.
 
Kampfhamster said:
Just do a short test: shoot 10 rds standing, 10 rds kneeling and 10 rds prone, once with the foregrip and once without. Use a plain target without bullseye. When you're done shooting compare where the majority of your bullets went.

The problem with foregrips is that they only work from one shooting position. As soon as you go prone they're useless. Why one should bolt a piece of equipment to your rifle that you can only use for certain positions is beyond me. When not using one it's also easier to find a natural and relaxed shooting position.
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I run a vertical foregrip on my carbines, even my 16". I use it in all positions from standing, kneeling, crouched, prone, around barricade and pressed barricade. I find I can provide tension on my body to stablize the rifle, and can get a bit more control. But I run mine quite far out on the rail interface. I also use it as a refrence point like clobbersaurus mentioned, and actually run my thumb parallel to the bore, with my palm 45 degrees to the bore axis.

So essentially to say it's only good for one position is a bit of a stretch, and I would have to say I disagree with that. I will agree with you on that AFG though, not for me!
 
Kampfhamster said:
Just do a short test: shoot 10 rds standing, 10 rds kneeling and 10 rds prone, once with the foregrip and once without. Use a plain target without bullseye. When you're done shooting compare where the majority of your bullets went.

The problem with foregrips is that they only work from one shooting position. As soon as you go prone they're useless. Why one should bolt a piece of equipment to your rifle that you can only use for certain positions is beyond me. When not using one it's also easier to find a natural and relaxed shooting position.
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Why can't you use the foregrip when prone or kneeling? In addition to conventional shooting positions, you can utilize a VFG as a brace for barricade shooting when appropriate.

The handstop/VFG can serve as an index point for actuating the switch on your PEQ and light.

It comes down to personal preference, but to say they have no use is not true. Since I grip a VFG high with my thumb over the top of bore, I only use stubbies or handstops. The bottom portion is extraneous for my use. If VFGs were totally useless then you wouldn't see such a proliferation of VFGs/handstops amongst professional users.
 
Big_Red said:
Why can't you use the foregrip when prone or kneeling? In addition to conventional shooting positions, you can utilize a VFG as a brace for barricade shooting when appropriate.

The handstop/VFG can serve as an index point for actuating the switch on your PEQ and light.

It comes down to personal preference, but to say they have no use is not true. Since I grip a VFG high with my thumb over the top of bore, I only use stubbies or handstops. The bottom portion is extraneous for my use. If VFGs were totally useless then you wouldn't see such a proliferation of VFGs/handstops amongst professional users.
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When you're prone, the foregrip is usually too far forward, so you have an unnatural shooting position. Why use a different position when shooting prone then when you're standing? It's easier to train and more stressresistant when your handposition always remains the same.

What's the average distance you use your thumb over the top position? did you try it out on distances longer then 200m? I'd say you'd not be able to hit as accurate as with another position.

When using the VFG/foregrip/whatever on a barricade, does your rifle have contact with the barricade? Doesn't the rifle jump with every shot?

And for professional users: quite a few of them are victims of marketing-campaigns and blow their budget on gadgets they don't really need.
Foregrips are one of those things.
 
I was trained to grasp the front of the mag well when firing the C-7, seemed to work well and it allowed me to get my left elbow in tight to my body when shooting standing.
 
Kampfhamster said:
When you're prone, the foregrip is usually too far forward, so you have an unnatural shooting position. Why use a different position when shooting prone then when you're standing? It's easier to train and more stressresistant when your handposition always remains the same.

What's the average distance you use your thumb over the top position? did you try it out on distances longer then 200m? I'd say you'd not be able to hit as accurate as with another position.

When using the VFG/foregrip/whatever on a barricade, does your rifle have contact with the barricade? Doesn't the rifle jump with every shot?

And for professional users: quite a few of them are victims of marketing-campaigns and blow their budget on gadgets they don't really need.
Foregrips are one of those things.
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Of course the rifle jumps, it's a rifle it recoils.

I've pushed my rifles out to 300 in the prone and the vertical grips don't seem to complicate my grip more, than say cusping the fore end.

The majority of people use a firearm for their employment (which I assume you mean when you use the term professional)use vertical grips, whether it me military, law enforcement, swat, etc. Saying they are victims of a marketing campaign is a gross over statement
 
mg4201 said:
I was trained to grasp the front of the mag well when firing the C-7, seemed to work well and it allowed me to get my left elbow in tight to my body when shooting standing.
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that is better for the accuracy shooting but the hand out front technique is better for rapid fire/action shooting which is why its now common since 3-gun is the main ar-15 sport
 
Amazingkg3 said:
Of course the rifle jumps, it's a rifle it recoils.
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I've learned to keep my hand between the rifle and the barricade, to steady it.
I've pushed my rifles out to 300 in the prone and the vertical grips don't seem to complicate my grip more, than say cusping the fore end.
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I'm not saying, that you don't hit anything, but that the accuracy could be better.

The majority of people use a firearm for their employment (which I assume you mean when you use the term professional)use vertical grips, whether it me military, law enforcement, swat, etc. Saying they are victims of a marketing campaign is a gross over statement
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Well, not over here in Europe. Here only the ones who have extra money in their budget get foregrips.
 
I used to be big on the accessories, but I've since evolved (or de-evolved) to just a simple hand stop like Clobbersauras for hand indexing. I've taken it a step further by mixing the types of rail covers so that it enhances a comfortable and natural grip.
 
Why does that kid in the video keep yanking on the charging handle?

Anyways, regarding the forward grips. If the grip has been integrated into your firing position there is no reason you wouldnt be able to use it in any position. There is a reason they are so popular, especially in the military and that is because they help and can be a good asset in all sorts of shooting positions and scenarios.
 
BurnabySoldier said:
Anyways, regarding the forward grips. If the grip has been integrated into your firing position there is no reason you wouldnt be able to use it in any position. There is a reason they are so popular, especially in the military and that is because they help and can be a good asset in all sorts of shooting positions and scenarios.
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I say use whatever works for you. :D
 
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