An Offhand Thought

[Glenfilthie]

I'll be damned...but I am starting to actually like the looks of some of these tactical snipers you boys are shooting. I REALLY like some of those tactical folders too!

My question is this - are those stocks any good for offhand work? Any gun I have (with the exception of my pistols, of course) - has to be able to hunt. And for me - sadly - hunting places me in some truly ugly positions. Literally!

Seems to me that the game is only moving when I am napping or taking a dump or a squirt - and to get a shot off I am sometimes forced to take a hasty shooting position that forbids the bipod and the careful, deliberate shot of the precision sniper. I shoot off my hind feet on occasion but have often had to brace against trees or hastily sling up from the sitting position.

Do these stocks lend themselves to that kind of shooting or are they only good for going prone?

 

[supernova]

First, your wasting your time trying to build a precision/hunting setup unless you don't mind compromising both. You'll end up with a heavy, awkward hunting rifle with an overkill scope. You'll also have a lightweight (bad thing) precision rifle with probably less scope than you need. My advice is to keep your hunting rifles and build a dedicated precision rifle. Stocks for offhand are very uncomfortable for prone shooting. Different ergos for a different body position. I haven't shot offhand with a prone stock but I'm sure its less comfy than a hunting stock. Keep the 2 seperate or you'll have a 1 gun that does 2 jobs half assed or 2 guns that do their jobs very well.

 

[Dogleg]

A heavy long range rifle with a prone stock is a poor general purpose hunting rifle. Oh, sure some of them can be pressed into service but a well set-up sporter can also stretch way out there too and not be a clumsy club for the more typical positions and distances.


The reality is that trade-offs have to be made when the goal is to land a string of hits at 1/2 mile or more. A standard sporter is a compromise the other way. Its purpose is hit a fairly big target at fairly close ranges (relatively speaking), from various positions, be fast handleing and light enough to carry. It will be carried a lot and seldom shot. When shot it will seldom be more than once. As horrifying as it will seem to some, pure accuracy can take a back seat to shootability. Trajectory may trump precision, and terminal performance comes in ahead of the last word in wind-drift.

Rifles such as Kenny Garret's "bean-field rifles" tried to optimize the performance of slightly heavier sporters that still could be recognized as hunting rifles. Some of current interest in long range hunting has lead to rifles going afield that are the last word in long range shooting but not good for much else. No doubt some people will hunt with their tactical and target rifles just because they like them, or want to, or that's what they have. No law against that.

 

[D_Ghost]

I hunt with my 12.8lbs (unloaded) precision rifle and shoot offhand, kneeling, sitting and prone with it but I also practice this. Slings help a lot. The T.I.S. sling is amazing (I have heard good things about TAB as well), but any sling will help when used properly. I have started to practice shooting offhand with my .338LM (20+ lbs, 28" extra heavy barrel 2" muzzle break) and kneeling and sitting. Again, slings help a LOT. But keep in mind what snipers do. They carry big heavy rifles and shoot from non-prone firing positions in crappy places in crappy conditions. No reason in the world you can't do it. Physical fitness can help significantly, but even disregarding that, other field-craft measures can be adopted. If you are stationary - like setting up a camera tripod modified for rifle support or using 3 good sized sticks and a small sandbag to make a rest can do wonders. Lots of hasty positions to shoot from with heavy rifles - look at sniper manuals/books for other ideas.

Too much optics? That is why most are variable so in my opinion that is just the right optics! You can shoot long range and take your deer our past 400 meters (as long as you practice at these distances and are confident), or back off the optics and hunt in brush for those 80-100 meter shots. You can choose exactly the level of zoom you want with rock solid mounts you will have confidence in.

The stock on my 308 is an HS precision, and my 338 is McMillan.

 

[precision_lee]

I'm 100% with D_Ghost, I hunt with a rifle that is 15plus pounds and travels in a phantom pack, it travels in the pack because of expense not because of weight. The best thing anybody can do to become accustomed to a BBG(Big Beautiful Gun) is start carrying it with you every time you go in the bush. Its a lot like my ruck sack in the forces, it felt huge and unmanageable when I first signed for my kit but after carrying it for a few days it was just another part of my body. You have to train to play the game!

Cheers!!

 

[tiriaq]

Last fall we ran a match for two person teams, one shooter with a precision rifle, the other with a carbine. The course of fire was designed so that shooting had to be done under field conditions. Prone from a bipod can only be used when appropriate - no vegetation, etc. Some shots could be taken that way, others not.
F(O) target competition is always shot on a groomed range from the prone position. A rifle that excels there may be next to useless in the field. A rifle that cannot be used for shooting from different positions is pretty limited from a practical use standpoint.
There is no reason that a rifle cannot be effective for multiple applications.
Weight is the most obvious concern.
There are specialized hunting situations, of course. Dogging in the bush is one.

 

[Shibby!]

Anything that functions well looks good to me. Buying a precision rifle for bush work is just wrong.

 

[twoshots]

I hunt wth mine. Works very well.

while walking to open shooting areas I have taken lots of game in thick bush.
The trick is to learn shooting positions/ find natural support. Set scope at low magnification while walking/waiting. Mines about 13lbs total and I would describe it as a hybrid. I prefer my kahles 6x42 IDF scope for hunting but the pm2's get used as well.

 

[DMS1]

Carbon fiber barrels. Christensen Arms blurs the line lines a bit. I use my 223 for coyotes, but it would be better for long range with a sniper fill stock instead of the edge fill. Around 9lbs with NF scope and atlas bipod. Although for the price of a carbon barreled gun, you could by 2 other guns. Depends what your goal is. I believe the technology is sound but cost prohibitive.

 

[peacefrog]

My precision rig is just over 16 lbs unloaded with a 30" barrel. No hunting with this thing for me, I can barely carry it out of the house...

 

[Slopok]

Is it just me but I fail to read where he is asking about building a gun, just the stock. If you can find a comfortable stock that you like use it. Nevermind the nay sayers about carrying a spefic stock/gun in the woods. By the sounds of thing and where you usally get caught you not taking 300+ yard shots, so find somthing YOU like and feel comfortable with and practice those off hand shots. Just my opinion anyway.

 

[dizzy]

some biathletes have some of the best stocks around, look at them. a great stock set up right makes repeat shots natural and will help you transition much quicker from a to a shot

 

[rimfiremac]

Take a look at what the isu shooters use. Their rifles are built for the ultimate in accuracy and ergonomics. Then work backwards using key features as a guide. Vertical handgrip, adjustable cheekpiece, adjustable buttplate. The buttplate position, for example, may change from a standing position to a prone position. The necessary comb height will vary with scope ring height. Weight is nice for operating off a bipod or rest, where half the rifle mass is in free recoil, but its mostly a less energy intensive substitute for a sling.

As with most activities, progress results from competition- look there for ideas. All these conventional hunting stocks are atiquated designs that we paint camouflage to make ourselves feel more comfortable behind. Just imagine how the hand is gnarled to hold a conventional style stock. The only other time I can think of when my hand is bent like that is when it cramps.