And now for something completely different...
- Thread starter jjohnwm
- Start date
Anyone know,or see what twist rate, on this rifle ?
You will find the carbon wrap will loose accuracy the more you shoot it. You have other heavy barrel 223 that will likely out shoot your carbon barrel 223. Light is nice for a while.
My go to 223 is a Savage LRPV 223 and it reaches out to 300 yards with my handloads. Enjoy it while it lasts.
My go to 223 is a Savage LRPV 223 and it reaches out to 300 yards with my handloads. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Is this true? Does the accuracy of CF barrels gradually degrade over time? I have never heard this before, but I am not a serious long-range shooter or competitor; I'd appreciate some confirmation of this waning accuracy problem. The Rem700 in the picture is a gun that I have had for a number of years; shot count is a bit under 2000 rounds, virtually all on my home range at up to 500 yards but usually 300-400. In ideal conditions, with its favourite loads and when I'm having a good day, it's about a 5/8 - 3/4 MOA gun. It's well over twice the weight of the S16, sits in an aluminum-bedding-block, has a very light crisp target trigger and wears a 16x scope. All things considered, I would certainly hope and expect it to outshoot a 5-pound toy wearing a 2-7x hunting scope.
I've also owned a LRPV, a few other heavy-barreled 700's, Model 70's, Rugers, a stupidly accurate
older Sako, etc...all of which would likely far ourperform the S16 on its best day in terms of accuracy. So what? Apples to oranges. The S16 is a super-lightweight rifle with a CF barrel; both things are new to me, so at this point I am just enjoying the novelty. In terms of carryability, the S16 far outperforms the heavier gun; that doesn't mean I want to sell the 700 off.
The Voere will never see 1000 rounds in its life with me. It'll hopefully have a load worked up for perhaps 300 yard maximum ranges, and will shoot mostly at half that range. It's a hunting rifle, pure and simple...and IMHO, light is always nice.
But thanks for trying to piss on my corn flakes when I've barely had a chance to pour them into the bowl. Are you going to also tell me my dog will likely die soon as well?
I'll have to measure it, can't seem to find the data anywhere online. Have only shot it with 55gr stuff so far. I'll try to measure it soon, before the CF starts to fall off in chunks.
- Location
- ON, North of GTA
Ooof!
Quick update on this rifle, after a total of about 250 rounds. I didn't do much with it immediately before or during deer rifle season, but now it has more of my attention.
Accuracy is quite a bit better than initial impressions suggested. I haven't loaded specifically for it yet, but I have a number of handloads stockpiled for other rifles and also at least one factory load that all print well under MOA with it. These are all 55-gr bullets, mostly cheap soft point hunting bullets. I'm embarrassed to admit that I still haven't smoked a coyote with it, but that will come...
The trigger is a point of disagreement for various shooters. It's a wee bit heavier than I would choose for a target rifle, but on a "hunting plinker" like this, which will be shot mostly in colder weather, I find the pull weight just about perfect. But...I like two-stage triggers. Two other shooters...one with much experience, and the other with almost none...have shot the gun and both of them hate the trigger! In a perfect world, this gun would have a single-set trigger, allowing a quick choice between rough-and-ready and ultimate-precision. But then, of course, it would need to cost more; it's a new-design, Euro-made, carbon-fibre-barrel ultralightweight bolt gun with excellent accuracy which costs a hair over $1200. I'm not complaining about the lack of a fairly specialized and limited-appeal item like a set trigger.
Raising the bolt handle to #### the rifle is stiff, and feels even stiffer because of the light overall weight of the gun. I am going to try polishing the camming surfaces a bit, and might even take a wee bit off the spring; don't want to do that until I have a replacement on hand...just in case. Right now, cycling the bolt with the rifle at your shoulder is a clumsy operation, sometimes resulting in a cold, cold knuckle getting smacked on the scope ring. Ouch.
One more observation: I commented above that it was capable of sub-MOA accuracy. Note that I did not say "easily" capable. Shooting this thing requires concentration... a lot of concentration. As most of us know, a lightweight rifle is more difficult to shoot as well as a heavier one; I'm not talking about recoil here, but rather the difficulty of maintaining a steady, consistent hold on something this light. There is no excess motion-deadening mass to help out; it's all on you. Consistency...of shooting grip, forearm grip, trigger squeeze, breath control, cheekweld, concentration on sight picture...is simply way more important than you might be accustomed to with rifles that are merely "light".
It's good and bad; you can't half-ass any part of the shot without paying the price in terms of decreased accuracy, and that forces you to pay attention every time. It's terrific practice; doing everything right pays off with very good accuracy; doing anything not-so-right will be instantly visible on the target. Quick accurate snap shots from offhand are tough to achieve, but very satisfying when you do pull them off.
So...some warts, some delights...just like most new guns. I'm still happy with it.
Accuracy is quite a bit better than initial impressions suggested. I haven't loaded specifically for it yet, but I have a number of handloads stockpiled for other rifles and also at least one factory load that all print well under MOA with it. These are all 55-gr bullets, mostly cheap soft point hunting bullets. I'm embarrassed to admit that I still haven't smoked a coyote with it, but that will come...
The trigger is a point of disagreement for various shooters. It's a wee bit heavier than I would choose for a target rifle, but on a "hunting plinker" like this, which will be shot mostly in colder weather, I find the pull weight just about perfect. But...I like two-stage triggers. Two other shooters...one with much experience, and the other with almost none...have shot the gun and both of them hate the trigger! In a perfect world, this gun would have a single-set trigger, allowing a quick choice between rough-and-ready and ultimate-precision. But then, of course, it would need to cost more; it's a new-design, Euro-made, carbon-fibre-barrel ultralightweight bolt gun with excellent accuracy which costs a hair over $1200. I'm not complaining about the lack of a fairly specialized and limited-appeal item like a set trigger.
Raising the bolt handle to #### the rifle is stiff, and feels even stiffer because of the light overall weight of the gun. I am going to try polishing the camming surfaces a bit, and might even take a wee bit off the spring; don't want to do that until I have a replacement on hand...just in case. Right now, cycling the bolt with the rifle at your shoulder is a clumsy operation, sometimes resulting in a cold, cold knuckle getting smacked on the scope ring. Ouch.
One more observation: I commented above that it was capable of sub-MOA accuracy. Note that I did not say "easily" capable. Shooting this thing requires concentration... a lot of concentration. As most of us know, a lightweight rifle is more difficult to shoot as well as a heavier one; I'm not talking about recoil here, but rather the difficulty of maintaining a steady, consistent hold on something this light. There is no excess motion-deadening mass to help out; it's all on you. Consistency...of shooting grip, forearm grip, trigger squeeze, breath control, cheekweld, concentration on sight picture...is simply way more important than you might be accustomed to with rifles that are merely "light".
It's good and bad; you can't half-ass any part of the shot without paying the price in terms of decreased accuracy, and that forces you to pay attention every time. It's terrific practice; doing everything right pays off with very good accuracy; doing anything not-so-right will be instantly visible on the target. Quick accurate snap shots from offhand are tough to achieve, but very satisfying when you do pull them off.
So...some warts, some delights...just like most new guns. I'm still happy with it.
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Thanks for the in-depth review OP.
Was wondering the same re: twist. Looks like it’s 1:12 according to the link below. If it was faster like 1:8 I’d seriously consider buying one.
Click on the drop-down menu titled “Kaliber” and it says .223 REM / 1:12”
https://www.voere-shop.com/shop/VOERE-S16-mit-Stahlauf-S16-Sport-Vollausstattung-p477934528
Screenshot:
Thanks for confirming that. I had intended to measure it myself on this gun, although it shoots so well with 55gr bullets that I was pretty sure it was 1 in 10 or 12 inches.
I'll never use this gun on anything bigger than a coyote, and likely will never shoot beyond 250 yards, 300 max, so I'm happy with it as is. But...considering the popularity nowadays of 65gr and heavier bullets, it's a bit surprising that a new gun like this wasn't built with the 1:8 twist. Good for me, though.
Yes I should have clarified that there’s nothing wrong with 1:12 whatsoever — especially since you’ve already got the 55 grainers — it’s just that I have a supply of 75gr which I like for coyote and even groundhogs.
Otherwise love the design, I could strap it to my pack and not feel weighed-down. The magwell is interesting too. Let’s you go prone with a bipod and AR mags for multiple critters (assuming you’re not getting too much of an accuracy drop-off as the pencil barrel heats up)
Otherwise love the design, I could strap it to my pack and not feel weighed-down. The magwell is interesting too. Let’s you go prone with a bipod and AR mags for multiple critters (assuming you’re not getting too much of an accuracy drop-off as the pencil barrel heats up)
- Location
- ON, North of GTA
Stock up on them mags...
What's the main purpose of these side loading, mag fed bolt guns? Belt fed is easy to understand but for a magazine fed bolt action I'm struggling to see the advantages?
John, mentioned that he liked being able to place his hand at the balance point of the rifle with no bottom mag protrusion, but it looks like that would only be an advantage holding the rifle with the right hand, if you wanted to shift over the left hand navigating terrain the side mag would likely get in the way of the forearm?
He also mentions the gun being harder to ####, which makes me think of the advantages of a protruding magazine in the traditional location.... I find for example that on my Ruger Ranch rifle using 10 round magazines, the mag makes for a nice grab handle both for trail carry and also as a support to stabilize the rifle while working the bolt?
Both of these newer to the market side loaders look interesting but if someone could explain the advantage or possibly advantages that would be nice.....
Even the prone, comment has me scratching my head as I can't really see the need to get the rifle lower to the ground then even a 30 round Stanag mag would allow let alone a more handy 10 round mag.
John, mentioned that he liked being able to place his hand at the balance point of the rifle with no bottom mag protrusion, but it looks like that would only be an advantage holding the rifle with the right hand, if you wanted to shift over the left hand navigating terrain the side mag would likely get in the way of the forearm?
He also mentions the gun being harder to ####, which makes me think of the advantages of a protruding magazine in the traditional location.... I find for example that on my Ruger Ranch rifle using 10 round magazines, the mag makes for a nice grab handle both for trail carry and also as a support to stabilize the rifle while working the bolt?
Both of these newer to the market side loaders look interesting but if someone could explain the advantage or possibly advantages that would be nice.....
Even the prone, comment has me scratching my head as I can't really see the need to get the rifle lower to the ground then even a 30 round Stanag mag would allow let alone a more handy 10 round mag.
I think that the prone shooting thing is about the most compelling advantage of the side mag, although that will only be true in limited circumstances. Back in the day, I did a lot of varmint hunting in Ontario with a Colt HBAR AR15 and also a couple of Mini14's, and the big banana-style hicap mags we all used were a PITA when shooting prone in just-mowed fields or simply when resting on fenceposts, rocks, etc. But I sure as hell wouldn't consider that sufficient reason to buy a gun like this to overcome that "problem". Much easier just to use a shorter magazine; and it's not as though I or anyone would enjoy using the Voere with a really long mag sticking out the side anyway. And for sure there will be set-ups where the side mag will be in your way and a PITA.What's the main purpose of these side loading, mag fed bolt guns? Belt fed is easy to understand but for a magazine fed bolt action I'm struggling to see the advantages?
John, mentioned that he liked being able to place his hand at the balance point of the rifle with no bottom mag protrusion, but it looks like that would only be an advantage holding the rifle with the right hand, if you wanted to shift over the left hand navigating terrain the side mag would likely get in the way of the forearm?
He also mentions the gun being harder to ####, which makes me think of the advantages of a protruding magazine in the traditional location.... I find for example that on my Ruger Ranch rifle using 10 round magazines, the mag makes for a nice grab handle both for trail carry and also as a support to stabilize the rifle while working the bolt?
Both of these newer to the market side loaders look interesting but if someone could explain the advantage or possibly advantages that would be nice.....
Even the prone, comment has me scratching my head as I can't really see the need to get the rifle lower to the ground then even a 30 round Stanag mag would allow let alone a more handy 10 round mag.
Honestly, the side mag and CF barrel and ultra-light weight are just things I wanted to try out and play with. It's a novelty. Certainly, now that I have it, the weight is the feature of which I am constantly aware when using the gun. The side-mag and CF barrels are just, to me at least, different. That's their main purpose, and it's a good enough reason for me to try a new gun.
There's a lot of stuff you probably own that you shouldn't try to rationalize, because you may find that you can't do it. Just saying "Because I want it!" makes life easier.
What I was thinking with the prone comment is simply that someone might conceivably buy this because they have a bunch of 5/30 P-mags laying around that are no longer being used.
Those longer mags might be too long for prone shooting in a traditional setup, depending on the bipod. Even if the bipod was high enough to accommodate those longer mags, they’d still be too long to change out while maintaining a sight picture and not moving the rifle.
The scenario I had in mind was with multiple targets like in some varmint hunting situations where you might want to change the mag with the support hand without losing the sight picture.
I simply pointed out that the side mag solves this problem when prone, but I agree that a 5/30rd out the side would be a little much. The smaller mags that John showed seem perfect.
In general I agree that the bottom is the optimal position for any detachable mag as it won’t unbalance the rifle and doesn’t get in the way of the support arm.
I also find that as I get older, I’m not enjoying shooting prone as much as when I was younger. Often the grass is too tall anyway, or I forgot the shooting mat at home and the area is crawling with ticks.
When I was growing up in Ontario, ticks were never encountered in the areas I hunted. I would plop down prone without hesitation anywhere I wanted.
Today, I live in Manitoba and ticks are always a possibility.
Of course, at my age a major concern when shooting prone...is having to get back up afterwards.
Thanks for further clarifying Barret, I did understand what you were getting at about a 30 round magazine getting in the way when prone, specially if you ever needed to be flat on the deck due to enemy fire..... The Sten comes to mind.
I'm not one to hate on any gun but other then being "different" I'm just wondering if there is some other point to it?
As I mentioned previously I find advantages to the bottom feed with med size mags that stick out long enough to be used as a support and still not get in the way.
The Sten comes to mind.I'm not one to hate on any gun but other then being "different" I'm just wondering if there is some other point to it?
As I mentioned previously I find advantages to the bottom feed with med size mags that stick out long enough to be used as a support and still not get in the way.
Right on!I think that the prone shooting thing is about the most compelling advantage of the side mag, although that will only be true in limited circumstances. Back in the day, I did a lot of varmint hunting in Ontario with a Colt HBAR AR15 and also a couple of Mini14's, and the big banana-style hicap mags we all used were a PITA when shooting prone in just-mowed fields or simply when resting on fenceposts, rocks, etc. But I sure as hell wouldn't consider that sufficient reason to buy a gun like this to overcome that "problem". Much easier just to use a shorter magazine; and it's not as though I or anyone would enjoy using the Voere with a really long mag sticking out the side anyway. And for sure there will be set-ups where the side mag will be in your way and a PITA.
Honestly, the side mag and CF barrel and ultra-light weight are just things I wanted to try out and play with. It's a novelty. Certainly, now that I have it, the weight is the feature of which I am constantly aware when using the gun. The side-mag and CF barrels are just, to me at least, different. That's their main purpose, and it's a good enough reason for me to try a new gun.
There's a lot of stuff you probably own that you shouldn't try to rationalize, because you may find that you can't do it. Just saying "Because I want it!" makes life easier.
That's kind of what I was thinking, something different and unique to try out.....
Variety is the spice of life!Is the rear stock notch back of the bolt's cutout for the safety to lock the bolt?
