Animal Defence Pump Shotgun

Lanark Sixgunner

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I am looking to buy a pump shotgun to use for animal defence e.g. dogs, bears, lions. I am looking mostly at the Remington 870 or Mossberg 500, though I may be interested in the Maverick 88. I am going to install a pistol-grip for a rear stock, put on a full-capacity mag tube, a side saddle, and a laser sighting device. I am thinking of putting on either an Aimtech or B-Square scope mount. You know, the no gunsmithing wrap-around type. I am leaning towards the B-Square. I will install a green laser for better visibility in the daylight. I plan on using this gun for fast action off the hip. I am not at all considering a full stock. I am in a wheelchair, so the recoil of a 12 off the shoulder is quite bothersome. I would like any opinions you all may have on either of these three guns, and also any recommendations on accessories or ammo.

Lanark Sixgunner
 
re: shotgun

Sixgunner,

First of all, are you serious? Where are you? I don't mean to be offensive, but I don't know how many areas you can find lions, bears, & wheelchair ramps. The "dog threat" is kind of confusing as well.
Anyways, all that aside, here are my thoughts. I would go with the Remington 870 as a start. It's a solid gun, almost bulletproof. Not only that, but there are way more accessories out there for the 870, AND you see them on the EE more often. From the sound of things you will probably want a short barrel, 20" or so.
Speaking of accesories, you can probably trim down your list. Without a plug, any 870 will hold 5x 2.75" shells. With an extended mag tube that goes up, let's say to 7. For bear/dog/lion defense, that should suffice. If you are planning to have the gun in a scabbard I wouldn't recomend a side saddle. It I would keep the gun as streamlined as possible for a faster presentation. If the gun snags while a bear is charging you, you can kiss your side saddle good bye. Not only that, but if you have time to fire 8 shots at a mountain lion that's coming at you full bore, and then reload from a side saddle & keep shooting, you should have your own TV show.
I would forget about the laser completely. Green or red, neither will do you an ounce of good outside during daylight hours.
The scope mount isn't a bad idea if you really want a CQB type sight. However, since you plan on firing "from the hip," I'm not sure what purpose it would serve. I would just get a set of high visibility fiber optic or ghost ring sights put on. If your heart is set on a scope rail, I would use the money you saved by NOY buying a laser, and invest in a good solid rail bolted right to the top of the receiver instead of a cheap wrap-around. That would give you a better foundation for your sight and again, keep it streamlined.
As far as ammo, I would go with Reduced recoil slugs and buck shot.

Good luck out there!
:p

Tim
 
I would suggest just digging through and looking at the old predator defence threads in the shotgun forum. There are likely hundreds, some are good reads most aren't....
 
To answer your questions: I am often on an ATV in thick brush. Yes, I know a bear or lion will probably not attack a vehicle, but consider a mother bear and cubs seperated by an open vehicle. Dog attacks unfortunately are not that uncommon. I had a dog take a bite at my leg two years ago when I had to slow down for a rough spot, and had two dogs nearly corner me a few weeks ago. Both instances were on the ATV. However, I am strong in the upper body, and like to go in my chair sometimes. Taking off the side saddle is a good idea, but I think I will stick with the laser, this is at "in your face" distances, after all.

Also, what makes of shotguns do you all prefer?

Thanks,

Lanark Sixgunner
 
I plan on using this gun for fast action off the hip. I am not at all considering a full stock. I am in a wheelchair, so the recoil of a 12 off the shoulder is quite bothersome.

From this I'd save money and lose the laser...you won't have time to do more than point anyway and at those distance, 'feeling' the point will work faster than looking for the dot.

Ted

Oh, and, I chose the Winchester 1300 Home Defender over the Remington 870 so many years ago that I do not remember why!
 
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For animal defence when out scouting before hunting season, I chose a Hatsan Escort MarineGuard 12 ga pump gun.

Before everyone starts flaming me, I don't plan to use it for hunting wild game or birds. I only plan to use it on bears that charge or attack in camp and home defence. 8 rounds of 12 ga should put down (provided I hit it:p) a bear or some a-hole breaking into my house.

The price was right and I don't plan to run thousands of rounds through it, just a mag full when it's important.
 
Never gave consideration to hip firing this way.
I can see from your point of view, that without shouldering the arm, and looking down the barrel to a bead, is not your option.
This maybe one of the few instances where you green laser, really is a good idea for better aiming. That is, if you have the luxury of time and distance.
It probably would not hurt practicing your hip shooting, assuming a loss of power to your laser, just in case.

You know some people may not like the idea of using an extended magazine.
But even if you do not fully load a 7 or 8 shot tubular magazine, here is my swing on it:
Using a 7 shot magazine tube, partially loaded with say 4 or 5 shells, this is easier on the magazine spring over time on a defensive long-gun.
 
I keep a maverick 88 for this purpose. It works reliably and is cheap enough to bang around without feeling guilty about it.
 
Knoxx stocks, perhaps? :yingyang:

cyclone is on to something here I think.
Found this on the highroad forum.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=185747

Knoxx SpecOps stock: initial review

I purchased one of these stocks and installed it on a Remington 870 Wingmaster with 20" IC smoothbore barrel (with rifle sights). I wanted to try it for two main reasons:

1. Having had two years of back surgery for an on-the-job injury, I've been left partially disabled, and heavy recoil is Not A Good Thing as far as my back is concerned;

2. I teach disabled and handicapped shooters, and many of them in wheelchairs or dependent on walking aids can't handle the recoil of a "normal" shotgun, even with low-recoil loads. I've tried using a standard Knoxx Compstock for them, but the LOP is just too long, particularly for wheelchair users. I wanted to see whether the adjustable length and recoil absorbtion of the SpecOps stock helped them.

Something like 200 rounds have gone downrange with the SpecOps stock so far, fired by myself and three disabled shooters (two in wheelchairs) who helped with the testing. As the SpecOps is primarily oriented towards defensive shooting, we used buckshot and slugs, both full-power and reduced-recoil, for our tests. (I see no reason why it shouldn't work perfectly well for trap, skeet, hunting, etc.

Subjectively, I'd say that this stock takes at least 50% off the recoil. In my hands, full-power 12ga. slugs (Rottweil Brenneke, Remington Slugger) feel even softer in recoil than a a low-base #8 birdshot round. I'd rate the felt recoil as equivalent to a 7.62x39mm. round fired from a Yugo SKS - entirely manageable, and nothing unpleasant. I suspect that a 3" magnum load would feel a bit like a reduced-recoil slug or buckshot load, but I haven't yet bothered with magnum rounds.

My disabled friends particularly appreciated being able to set the length of the stock to suit themselves. Both guys in wheelchairs set it to one notch out from the shortest position, giving a LOP of approximately 11¾", and found that this was very manageable from their seated position. The other shooter, using a walker, found a mid-length position most comfortable, as did I - LOP about 12½". We all found that the thin hard rubber butt pad was not the world's most comfortable, but given that the recoil was much reduced, this wasn't a major problem. I plan on replacing it with either a Kick-Eez or Limbsaver pad for even better recoil reduction.

Overall, I'm very impressed with this stock. It's certainly going to stay on my HD-oriented shotgun, and I'll probably buy one of the CopStock wire-framed folding stocks as well, just to play with it and compare them. (Given that they both use the same recoil reduction mechanism, I expect the "feel" of the recoil to be similar: but the wire-frame stock doesn't have the same solid pad as the SpecOps, so I might have to rig up something to spread the recoil a bit.)

---------------

There are two recoil reducing devices in the SpecOps. One is in the pistol grip and the other in the butt stock. Pulling the stock tightly against your shoulder preloads the secondary mechansim and reduces its effectiveness. It also tends to increase the intensity of the little recoil that makes it past the grip mechansim. After thousands of rounds of testing we have found that the best method is to set the stock gently against the shoulder and let the mechansims do their work. It takes some practice to overcome the old habits but it is worth it.
 
I do wildife damage assessments on forage crops in southern BC and need to walk quite a few remote hay fields in cat and bear country.I carry a 12 ga 23/4 870 with a 20" rifle sighted bbl w/o mag plug. First in the mag is a 00 buck rd followed by 11/4 " oz slugs. No fancy sights,stocks or add-on gee-haws. It's best to keep it light and simple. For the next 2 days I'll be surveying an uninhabited ranch well back in the tules and will be happy to have it with me.
 
If you are doing any one hand shooting, a double barrel 12 coachgun from Stoeger would be my choice. No pumping necessary. Considering you are in a wheelchair, it'll give you two fast shots even at odd angles as long as your dominant hand is on the gun. I'd use 00 buck because of the short distance and fast shooting it would require. Buckshot is real nasty up close.
 
From this I'd save money and lose the laser...you won't have time to do more than point anyway and at those distance, 'feeling' the point will work faster than looking for the dot.

Ted

Oh, and, I chose the Winchester 1300 Home Defender over the Remington 870 so many years ago that I do not remember why!

probably b/c it was about half the price at the time- and the 870 on the rack was a DUCK gun and you wanted a"tactical" - that's what it was with me-my duck gun was a remmy 1100, and i wanted/needed atactical- the defender wasjust over 200 at teh time and would take 3 inch - the remmy was a strict 23/4 set up
 
A few question that might help with selecting what you need:

Are you thinking of shooting two handed or one handed?
Where are you keeping you ammo while out in the bush?
What type of carry do you want to use?
Will the above questions change depending on you method of mobility?
 
I am looking to buy a pump shotgun to use for animal defence e.g. dogs, bears, lions. I am looking mostly at the Remington 870 or Mossberg 500, though I may be interested in the Maverick 88. I am going to install a pistol-grip for a rear stock, put on a full-capacity mag tube, a side saddle, and a laser sighting device. I am thinking of putting on either an Aimtech or B-Square scope mount. You know, the no gunsmithing wrap-around type. I am leaning towards the B-Square. I will install a green laser for better visibility in the daylight. I plan on using this gun for fast action off the hip. I am not at all considering a full stock. I am in a wheelchair, so the recoil of a 12 off the shoulder is quite bothersome. I would like any opinions you all may have on either of these three guns, and also any recommendations on accessories or ammo.

Lanark Sixgunner

In my opinion, the best dedicated pistol grip for a shotgun is the Speedfeed pistol grip. It points better - and it feels even better under recoil - than does the recoil-attenuating Knoxx BreacherGrip (subjectively, in my opinion).
SPEEDFEED®
PISTOL GRIP STOCK SET
Designed by the leading supplier of specialized law enforcement shotguns, the SPEEDFEED Pistol Grip features a unique angle to the plane of the shotgun. Recoil is kept to a minimum, allowing shot by shot control. The set comes with forend and all necessary mounting hardware.

Pistol Grip Stock Set

* 0390 Remington 870 12 gauge
* 0392 Winchester 1200/1300 12 gauge
* 0394 Mossberg 500/590 12 gauge
PGS_8.jpg

Picatinny rails are available from GG&G and Badger Ordnance.
http://www.badgerordnance.com/
http://www.gggaz.com/index.php?cat=60

The green laser sighting sounds ideal for your application. LaserMax makes a quality unit that will serve your purpose.
http://www.lasermax.com/product.php?id=127

If you haven't already, I'd also consider the 14" barrelled Norinco HP9-1.
http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/N870-14.00.shtm
 
From this I'd save money and lose the laser...you won't have time to do more than point anyway and at those distance, 'feeling' the point will work faster than looking for the dot.

Ted

Oh, and, I chose the Winchester 1300 Home Defender over the Remington 870 so many years ago that I do not remember why!

Because the defender 1300 is a champ and the 870 is a piece o crap! My two cents. Oh, and never ever buy a maverick 88. They're worse than the 870. Jammy jammy. And I know everyone is already saying "this guy's an idiot, he doen't like 870's". I'm referring to the "express" line. I have a defender 1300 and an old Winchester 2200 (the canadian 1200) It's always worked flawlessly on the line while my bud's 870 expresses are always jamming. The actions need polishing. The 870 Police or 11-87 lines are beautiful, however.
 
I would also seriously consider a semi... 18.5 is short enough and should allow for 5 shots and still over 26" OAL with a pistol grip. I would want the laser to be mounted on a forward non-top rail so the stock sights are still visible.
 
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