Annealer Unit/Process

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edmmatt

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Edmonton, AB
Hi all,

I've done some searching on the forum and I see it hasn't been posted much about before but I was hoping someone on here had some experience with annealing (specifically for resizing 223 to 300blk).


I'm looking for a more budget solution, with the dollar particularly I'd be looking at a 40% premium on a US built machine and an AMP is out of the budget anyway. I'm somewhat open to a DIY solution and as much as I'd like a more automated unit I don't think I'd be doing the volume to justify the higher cost.


At the moment I'm leaning towards the salt bath solution as the Ballistic Recreations guy seems to be based in Edmonton as well. My question is if the salt bath would be appropriate given the amount of resizing being done (completely reforming a cut down 223 into a 300blk) or if a homebrewed induction process would be a better option due to the absence of any residual material.
 
If you're handy, you can build an induction heating machine pretty easily, about US$130, here's the B.O.M. :

hxxps://forum.snipershide.com/threads/homemade-induction-annealer.6966638/

[disclamer: I plan on building one myself, but I've got too much work-in-progress project already...]
 
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I do it by twirling the brass by hand in an almost dark room. For short brass like 223 you may want to use a drill with a deep socket that fits the diameter of the brass otherwise you could burn your fingers. Just light enough to see. I separate the brass by brand as different brands require different amounts of time. I twirl until there is just a sight red and count the seconds. I then back off just a bit then throw the brass on a cloth. I then count the same for each brass while watching that the brass does not turn red. If it turns red much the brass will be no good. I don't throw them in water. In fact I did 160 257 mag brass yesterday. I found this method from a forum in Australia. I have done hundreds and so far no more split case necks & I've had no problem from over annealing. I know many will poo poo my method but I really don't care. Works for me & that is all I care about. You want the heat to be a bit below the shoulder. With my 257 brass maybe a half inch or so below. You absolutely do not want the base of the brass to get too hot otherwise you will soften that portion & could cause case separation. Some use temp sticks & tempilac. I don't but suit yourself. Most of my 300 wsm brass takes 5 to 6 seconds. Some less. I found the fed brass is thinner & takes maybe a 4 or 5 count. The 257 weatherby brass took 6 to 7 seconds. If I was you I would practice on some discardable brass first. Up to you but I am not spending a grand to do what my fingers can do.
 
edmmatt said:
Hi all,

I've done some searching on the forum and I see it hasn't been posted much about before but I was hoping someone on here had some experience with annealing (specifically for resizing 223 to 300blk).


I'm looking for a more budget solution, with the dollar particularly I'd be looking at a 40% premium on a US built machine and an AMP is out of the budget anyway. I'm somewhat open to a DIY solution and as much as I'd like a more automated unit I don't think I'd be doing the volume to justify the higher cost.


At the moment I'm leaning towards the salt bath solution as the Ballistic Recreations guy seems to be based in Edmonton as well. My question is if the salt bath would be appropriate given the amount of resizing being done (completely reforming a cut down 223 into a 300blk) or if a homebrewed induction process would be a better option due to the absence of any residual material.
Click to expand...

I do the salt bath it seems to be the easiest and cheapest way to anneal and least amount of hassle, What are you using to cut down the brass ? I have a bunch of 223 i want to make into 300blk as well but in Canada there doesn't seem to be the jigs and saws like they have in the USA.
 
I get what you're saying. If I was reusing obscure match grade brass I'm sure the AMP might be worth it but I'll probably go a similar route and try the blowtorch first while I work on the same DIY one eessorx found. Particularly if I'm just scavenging range 223 to alter for an AR I'm not too worried about tossing a couple over/under annealed cases.
 
Ravage said:
I do the salt bath it seems to be the easiest and cheapest way to anneal and least amount of hassle, What are you using to cut down the brass ? I have a bunch of 223 i want to make into 300blk as well but in Canada there doesn't seem to be the jigs and saws like they have in the USA.
Click to expand...

I have been searching for months for one of those little Harbour Freight chop saws they build all the jigs for but i also refuse to pay $110 for it on ebay when they're sold for $30 over the border. I was planning on just using a cheap little plumping pipe cutter from princess auto. Basically just manually mark your cases with a thin sharpie and use the pipe cutter, gives a nice even cut allegedly.
 
The nice thing about the salt bath annealing is you cannot mess it up and over heat and wreck the brass like with other methods its heated to the right temp and you can keep it there and for $100 it is the cats meow for sure.
 
Like others have suggested, do it by hand over a propane burner. Do it enough times you'll get a feel for it. If you burn your fingers your doing it too long. Watch for the color change.
 
Ravage said:
The nice thing about the salt bath annealing is you cannot mess it up and over heat and wreck the brass like with other methods its heated to the right temp and you can keep it there and for $100 it is the cats meow for sure.
Click to expand...

I did some research, and a guy did a pretty thorough hardness review of salt annealed brass only to find out it wasn't annealed very well. I could probably find the link back if you'd like...
 
essorx said:
I did some research, and a guy did a pretty thorough hardness review of salt annealed brass only to find out it wasn't annealed very well. I could probably find the link back if you'd like...
Click to expand...

The guy that did the research also happens to be the owner of AMP. Take his findings with a grain of salt, so to speak.


Honestly, I can see a huge difference in how my cases run through the sizing die and how much effort is needed to seat bullets on my salt annealed brass vs work hardened brass. It works.
 
essorx said:
I did some research, and a guy did a pretty thorough hardness review of salt annealed brass only to find out it wasn't annealed very well. I could probably find the link back if you'd like...
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure that factory annealed brass are salt bath annealed as the brass is dipped into it as it runs down the assembly line at the factory. Annealing is all about the temperature and with the salt bath you control the temperature to a very precise level other forms like flame and AMP use temperatures three times or more higher then acceptable temperatures for brass so even one second too long can over heat and wreck the brass.

With the salt bath the margin for error is way more forgiving and again for just over $100 investment its by far the cheapest method as well.
 
Ravage said:
I am pretty sure that factory annealed brass are salt bath annealed as the brass is dipped into it as it runs down the assembly line at the factory. Annealing is all about the temperature and with the salt bath you control the temperature to a very precise level other forms like flame and AMP use temperatures three times or more higher then acceptable temperatures for brass so even one second too long can over heat and wreck the brass.

With the salt bath the margin for error is way more forgiving and again for just over $100 investment its by far the cheapest method as well.
Click to expand...


 
I use the salt bath with the digital thermometer and it work great. More control over temp than a torch.
But will be nice to have an AMP if it has a price that make sense. $1800 + taxes + adapters, it’s not in the book.
Will spend my money on a gun instead..:)
 
Ravage said:
I am pretty sure that factory annealed brass are salt bath annealed as the brass is dipped into it as it runs down the assembly line at the factory. Annealing is all about the temperature and with the salt bath you control the temperature to a very precise level other forms like flame and AMP use temperatures three times or more higher then acceptable temperatures for brass so even one second too long can over heat and wreck the brass.

With the salt bath the margin for error is way more forgiving and again for just over $100 investment its by far the cheapest method as well.
Click to expand...

I think I'll be going with the salt bath method, the guy over a Ballistic Recreations (I don't know if he's on CGN or not, he should be) was super quick with a response and lives a quick drive from my office. Seems the most foolproof way provided you keep your water source far far far away from the molten salt. Down the line I'll start slowly collecting parts for a DIY induction annealer unless I win the lottery and buy an AMP.
I'll probably do a write up specifically about forming 300BLK out of 223 with the salt in a couple weeks. As I said before my main concern is about residue/contaminates from the salt/flame affecting the brass/die when you're resizing that much.

Appreciate the input.
 
Just pulled the trigger on the induction heating components, $75 delivered. Hopefully should be there in the next few weeks, I'll let you know how it goes.
 
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