Annealing brass
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Munkey1973
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Yes, if done properly, you will get the benefits of brass longevity and increased accuracy.
IMO, the increased accuracy is mostly the result of more consistent neck tension which yields:
(1) consistent seating depths (measuring by CBTO technique)
(2) consistent bullet release
Another tertiary to accuracy is that (perhaps) softer neck/shoulders will fire-form better to the chamber, which perhaps generates less round out.
Before my best friend built my custom/programable induction annealer, I was seriously considering an "Annealeze" setup that runs on propane... for a bout $350 USD
I don't have any experience with AMP... but it might very well be worth the extra $$ over propane units (which, did work well for many reloaders, for many years).
If you did buy an AMP and had a change of heart later, I would imagine that the resale value of it would be quite good though.
When brass is over annealed its straight to the garbage bin. Kind of like overheating steel, the grain structure is ruined.
Annealing provides long case life. Many more firings. It also provides a more constant neck tension and better ES.
For myself if I was to buy, money no object, it probably would be an AMP. If I wanted something a bit cheaper than the AMP I would go with a Bench Source with a 20lb bottle. One step down again would be the Annealeze with a 20lb bottle. Then manual torch/drill/timer. ( 20lb bottle ) Somewhere in there is "salt bath" I don't want to mess with that personally.
How ofter its done is up to the individual. I do it every time.
Annealing provides long case life. Many more firings. It also provides a more constant neck tension and better ES.
For myself if I was to buy, money no object, it probably would be an AMP. If I wanted something a bit cheaper than the AMP I would go with a Bench Source with a 20lb bottle. One step down again would be the Annealeze with a 20lb bottle. Then manual torch/drill/timer. ( 20lb bottle ) Somewhere in there is "salt bath" I don't want to mess with that personally.
How ofter its done is up to the individual. I do it every time.
Thanks for the explanation, that all makes sense and can see why precision guys would be using it for the neck tension aspect. Brass longevity appeases the frugal part of me too, especially when considering odd ball brass that gets expensive and scarce.
I hope I didn't kick over a hornets nest with my question as some seem to suggest!
I hope I didn't kick over a hornets nest with my question as some seem to suggest!
I have been reloading and annealling brass for a little over 50 yrs. Not saying I know it all but I have learned a little. There are a number of mistaken ideas in the preceeding threads. When brass cases are formed on a punch machine the brass has been work hardened. That is not all bad. The case head and primer pocket need to be hard to prevent unwanted expansion when the cartridge is fired. the neck and shoulder area of the case need to be soft so they expand easily to form a good gas seal for the 50,000 (approx) psi chamber pressure. the area in the middle of the case ends up harder than the neck and softer than the case head. Assuming cases have been properly annealed by the manufacturer that case can usually be fired 5 times before the case neck starts to get too hard because of work hardening from repeated firing and resizing. Some indicators that the necks are getting too hard include darkening of the outside of the neck and shoulder caused by neck not expanding fast enough to form a good seal. The next thing that starts happening is necks start to split on firing because the brass is getting too hard. Annealing the necks softens the brass in the neck resulting in good gas seal, consistant bullet pull which will lead to consistant accuracy. Norma explained all this in a publication back in the late 1960's. In that explanation they strongly recommended standing the cases in approx 3/4 inch of water and tipping the case into the water after it was heated. That did two things. First it made it impossible to overheat the case head and inadvertently soften it so primer pockets expand the next time the case is fired. and by quenching the case in the water the necks are annealed to a consistant hardness.If you want to anneal every firing go ahead they are your cases but they really don't need it. I hope this helps
BattleRife
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Whoa there, what can you tell me about this? Do you know the title, or author? Was it a book, brochure, pamphlet or what?
I've got a collection of literature on annealing that dates back to the 19-teens, but this is the first I have heard of this Norma document.
BattleRife
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It is important to note that all that early research was indeed focused on production of new cases, and to this very day not much has been done on what annealing does for reloaded brass. That is why I am very interested in this Norma document, they started as reloaders, and maybe bring a different perspective.
It has been proven that neck tension as a result of work hardening brass increases after the first few firings and remains relatively consistent thereafter. So as long as you are not splitting necks, and can get good results with brass fired more than once, annealing to reduce neck tension is unnecessary. Consistent neck tension is common with brass that is not annealed.
https://www.petersoncartridge.com/t...-to-case-neck-tension-after-repeated-firings/
https://www.petersoncartridge.com/t...-to-case-neck-tension-after-repeated-firings/
Proper annealing also anneals the shoulder area of the brass allowing consistent headspace when resizing along with consistent neck tension.
Whether the case is 2nd or 9th times fired it will always be consistent for headspace and neck tension.
I'm not an expert by any means but yes I do believe it will help there if it is annealed properly.
Without annealing I can feel different resistance on the press handle when sizing my brass and headspace varies over the lot, annealing properly from my experience removes most of the inconsistency
Do you know of any top shooters that don't anneal?
Here is a direction comparison at 1000 yards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCRIw1PQOK4
I'm not an expert by any means but yes I do believe it will help there if it is annealed properly.
Without annealing I can feel different resistance on the press handle when sizing my brass and headspace varies over the lot, annealing properly from my experience removes most of the inconsistency
Do you know of any top shooters that don't anneal?
Here is a direction comparison at 1000 yards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCRIw1PQOK4
Yes, I can feel seating and sizing differences with annealed cases too. For brass that isn't annealed but work hardened, I see a thou or 2 at the most bump differences. It has become less with the switch to a better lanolin based lube from what I can tell.
Some of guys anneal at my gun club, lots don't. The most successful local fullbore Palma shooter, been to Bisley etc, has never annealed a case in his life. I know because that's exactly how he put it when I asked him.
There would be testimonials for it as well. Lou Murdica, and Charlie Sisk have done a pile of testing in personal 100 yd underground ranges. They both have strong opinions on the matter.
If you don’t want to anneal don’t anneal. I don’t think anyone here will lose sleep over it.
If you don’t want to anneal don’t anneal. I don’t think anyone here will lose sleep over it.
Interesting chart, thanks.
So velocity does not care about neck tension. However the first 4 firings the brass is not the same as each other. Not sure how that effects the reloading process itself with inducing variables. You can have variables in annealing as well, you can have heat soaked brass work harden in the rifle differently as well. If someone annealed consistently, or did not anneal consistently, then at the very least you would likely get longer brass life by annealing. When I started to anneal, I noticed a great deal difference in accuracy, I had not changed anything else in my procedure.
For a lot of cartridges 50 cases is enough to wear out a barrel mainly use annealing to get more life out of the cases and form wildcats. Personally don’t however do it after each firing.
Some rifles aren’t accurate enough to tell a difference and the opposite can be said as well for on paper results concerning accuracy.
Some rifles aren’t accurate enough to tell a difference and the opposite can be said as well for on paper results concerning accuracy.
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Handloading...
Hilarious. Yea, guys annealing their brass automatically shoot less than you. Good one.
