I am in the market for an annealing machine I have watched videos, looked at different forums, posts from people who make their own and on and on. the one that I am taking a liking to is the on made by Bench Source. I am hoping there is someone out there that has one or used one and can give me their candid opinion on this product, Thanks I look forward to hearing what everyone has to say.
Annealing macines
- Thread starter accumark
- Start date
I use the bench source. Works great and makes the process very repeatable and consistent.
Only issue I have is reconnecting the torches each time means I have to adjust and point the flames to the right spot. Going to get a hose for the torches pretty quick since the weight of the bottles is what causes the adjustments to change. So only a user issue, not a device issue.
Only issue I have is reconnecting the torches each time means I have to adjust and point the flames to the right spot. Going to get a hose for the torches pretty quick since the weight of the bottles is what causes the adjustments to change. So only a user issue, not a device issue.
Great tool. Ordered mine directly from bench source. Be prepared for a long conversation if you get the owner. He is a wealth of knowledge and offered full support anytime I need it. Fortunately I got it when the dollar was a little better.
- Location
- Jameson, SK
Where do you get the hoses for the torches from??
I have a Ballistic Edge (annealingmachines.com). I will fully fully admit that it has not annealed a single piece of brass YET, but I can confirm that they are well reviewed, reasonable value, and dealing with Phil was great.
Keep comments to yourself about what a reloading/LR shooting amateur I am - just trying to help.....
-J.
I have a Ballistic Edge (annealingmachines.com). I will fully fully admit that it has not annealed a single piece of brass YET, but I can confirm that they are well reviewed, reasonable value, and dealing with Phil was great.
Keep comments to yourself about what a reloading/LR shooting amateur I am - just trying to help.....
-J.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I bring them in as ordered. Dollar kind of makes this an expensive investment but it really works well.
Jerry
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
A very well made unit and very nice guy BUT the timer in the unit I reviewed needed a lot of time to warm up before staying reasonably consistent.
I hope that he was able to modify/replace that item and get things more stable. That was really my main concern with his annealer.
It would be my main concern for any annealer.
Jerry
- Location
- Jameson, SK
If you tell me what to watch out for Jerry I can do a mini-review. Mine is one of the first of his model "450-s" with a variable speed motor... I wonder if that is why he updated??
-J.
I ordered out of the U.S. as well and picked it up across the border. Was a pretty big savings at the time (year ago)
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Time each slot movement. It should be consistent to the tenth of a second to be reliable. The unit I reviewed took a long time to warm up before it was in that type of ball park. But changing setting meant more waiting to stabilise.
My website has the link to the review. I hope he modified the timer as that was really the only neg to the unit. Was really well built.
I like the Bench Source and few extra features it has to really get the most consistent annealing I have seen to date. With quality brass case reaching well over $1 a piece in larger chamberings, being able to maintain these little gems pay offs in the long run.
It is so easy to anneal wrong vs doing it right... I made the choice to invest the money and am happy I did.
Jerry
- Location
- Jameson, SK
I use a machine as well and also use Tempilaq to get it setup right each time.
The new machine I have on order is digital and is controlled to the 1/10th of a second so I figure it should be easy to setup each time after the first tempilaq run.
I already have another post on the annealing system I have on order if you want to check it out.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1264945-Case-Annealing-check-out-this-bad-boy!
The new machine I have on order is digital and is controlled to the 1/10th of a second so I figure it should be easy to setup each time after the first tempilaq run.
I already have another post on the annealing system I have on order if you want to check it out.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1264945-Case-Annealing-check-out-this-bad-boy!
As co-owner of Ballistic Edge Mfg. I thought I might chime in here.
Ballistic Edge currently manufactures 3 different annealing machines with 2 more in the works. All products lines have been continuously upgraded and updated. All machines include forced air cooling.
Models include, the model 360. A utility type machine that operates by the timing method of annealing. The top plate will accept all rifle cases from 17 to 50 bmg as well as some larger pistol cases. As well as the top plate has been redesigned so it can have some heat sink capabilities.
Model 400 is a custom built machine designed for the competitive/long range shooter. Method of operation is constant motion method of annealing. Designed with safety in mind the top plate is a large heat sink to protect the cartridge bases. Also due to precision machining there is no wobbling of the case as it rotates and passes through the flame like other manufactures. The cases rotate on their axis as they rotate through the heating cycle.
Model 450-S is a variable speed version of the custom built model 400. It works on the same principle of annealing as the 400 and allows for the owner to adjust rotational speed to tweak amount of heating. Can be used for higher production levels as well.
One thing to keep in mind, no matter the type of machine or method of operation. Both time and more so quantity of heat have a large impact. Other factors include alloy of the brass, manufacture, processes during manufacture (ex. during the draw process when was the last annealing process and steps that took place after factory annealing and before it was loaded and sent out) whether you mix cases, physical size of the case, how much the cases is worked, thickness of the brass, quality and consistency. All contribute to the process and the outcome. Many of these are beyond the control of the reloader.
Annealing the brass case can be successfully achieved with a very large range of temperatures. Time is inversely proportional to the temp. Ex. achieving a temp of 450 deg F. will anneal the cartridge case but the time in the heat is impractical as heat propagation will damage the cartridge case head thus allowing for a catastrophic failure. Conversely higher heat of the brass, close to 900 deg. F. for very short periods of time will accomplish the task and heat propagation is lesser of an issue. Remember the temperature of the flame of a propane torch is 3623 deg F. In brass manufacturing annealing is different for the various stages in the process.
When asked how hot to get a case, I recommend from 700 to 800 deg. F. target area and to aim for 750 deg F. There are a few methods for monitoring temperature but I recommend Tempilaq as it is more repeatable and scientific than trying to achieve a certain color during the heating stage.
With a 100 degree margin, some minute details become very insignificant. Things that are further from your control are magnetic fields, electrical line current and voltage fluctuation, high frequency electricity, electrical circuit warm up periods, friction, ambient temperature, static to name a few outside variables that effect all reloading equipment.
To the common reloader there is not a real practical way to monitor hardness of the brass case. Keep careful records not only of the process but how the process effects your rifle and program, which is truly the most important thing. That is why I recommend the Tempilaq for the consistency from batch to batch. I have some customers who report they find more consistent results at 650 deg and I have some who shoot for 800 deg. Bottom line is, there is no set answer and it is just another variable you have to figure out as to what works best for your rifle, brass and reloading program.
I thought I would relate a learning moment as relayed by a customer.
The customer began extreme long range shooting and decided he wanted a machine. I built his machine. While waiting the customer bought a large lot of new expensive brass and began load work up. He received the annealing machine and used one time and found it shrunk groups. He then figured that if a little bit was good a lot would be better. He proceeded to anneal after every conceivable step in the reloading process as well as every case he bought. He annealed after trimming, annealed after de-burring, after cleaning, etc. When he finally was ready to finish he discovered the cases were so soft they collapsed during seating. All of their cases were to soft and were ruined.
Moral you can over anneal as well as there can be too much of a good thing.
Thank You
Ballistic Edge Mfg.
Ballistic Edge currently manufactures 3 different annealing machines with 2 more in the works. All products lines have been continuously upgraded and updated. All machines include forced air cooling.
Models include, the model 360. A utility type machine that operates by the timing method of annealing. The top plate will accept all rifle cases from 17 to 50 bmg as well as some larger pistol cases. As well as the top plate has been redesigned so it can have some heat sink capabilities.
Model 400 is a custom built machine designed for the competitive/long range shooter. Method of operation is constant motion method of annealing. Designed with safety in mind the top plate is a large heat sink to protect the cartridge bases. Also due to precision machining there is no wobbling of the case as it rotates and passes through the flame like other manufactures. The cases rotate on their axis as they rotate through the heating cycle.
Model 450-S is a variable speed version of the custom built model 400. It works on the same principle of annealing as the 400 and allows for the owner to adjust rotational speed to tweak amount of heating. Can be used for higher production levels as well.
One thing to keep in mind, no matter the type of machine or method of operation. Both time and more so quantity of heat have a large impact. Other factors include alloy of the brass, manufacture, processes during manufacture (ex. during the draw process when was the last annealing process and steps that took place after factory annealing and before it was loaded and sent out) whether you mix cases, physical size of the case, how much the cases is worked, thickness of the brass, quality and consistency. All contribute to the process and the outcome. Many of these are beyond the control of the reloader.
Annealing the brass case can be successfully achieved with a very large range of temperatures. Time is inversely proportional to the temp. Ex. achieving a temp of 450 deg F. will anneal the cartridge case but the time in the heat is impractical as heat propagation will damage the cartridge case head thus allowing for a catastrophic failure. Conversely higher heat of the brass, close to 900 deg. F. for very short periods of time will accomplish the task and heat propagation is lesser of an issue. Remember the temperature of the flame of a propane torch is 3623 deg F. In brass manufacturing annealing is different for the various stages in the process.
When asked how hot to get a case, I recommend from 700 to 800 deg. F. target area and to aim for 750 deg F. There are a few methods for monitoring temperature but I recommend Tempilaq as it is more repeatable and scientific than trying to achieve a certain color during the heating stage.
With a 100 degree margin, some minute details become very insignificant. Things that are further from your control are magnetic fields, electrical line current and voltage fluctuation, high frequency electricity, electrical circuit warm up periods, friction, ambient temperature, static to name a few outside variables that effect all reloading equipment.
To the common reloader there is not a real practical way to monitor hardness of the brass case. Keep careful records not only of the process but how the process effects your rifle and program, which is truly the most important thing. That is why I recommend the Tempilaq for the consistency from batch to batch. I have some customers who report they find more consistent results at 650 deg and I have some who shoot for 800 deg. Bottom line is, there is no set answer and it is just another variable you have to figure out as to what works best for your rifle, brass and reloading program.
I thought I would relate a learning moment as relayed by a customer.
The customer began extreme long range shooting and decided he wanted a machine. I built his machine. While waiting the customer bought a large lot of new expensive brass and began load work up. He received the annealing machine and used one time and found it shrunk groups. He then figured that if a little bit was good a lot would be better. He proceeded to anneal after every conceivable step in the reloading process as well as every case he bought. He annealed after trimming, annealed after de-burring, after cleaning, etc. When he finally was ready to finish he discovered the cases were so soft they collapsed during seating. All of their cases were to soft and were ruined.
Moral you can over anneal as well as there can be too much of a good thing.
Thank You
Ballistic Edge Mfg.
