Another .223 vs. .22-250 thread

tmlaqua I have used my .30-06 on yotes and putting a hole the size of my fist through them isn't pretty, I actually wouldn't mind keeping a hide or two, plus picking up another rifle is always fun, In addition I wouldn't mind having a smaller calibre round to dispatch other stuff as well.

As I said in my original post, I would rather a .223 or a .22-250 as they are common and the local wal mart and crappy tire carries them in bulk packs.

I am a noob when it comes to twist rates, what will a 1:9 .223 stabalize and what will a 1:12 .22-250 in a 22" barrel do? as I have narrowed down the gun I want (savage 11 GCNS) but obviously not the calibre yet hence this thread :confused:
 
For me it's the .22-250 all the way. You're not shooting hundred of rounds a day at coyotes, so as long as you're not also using the gun for targets or ground squirrels, barrel life doesn't seem like that much of an issue. I rarely get a shot at more than 200-250 yards where I hunt, but occasionally a 300-400 yard opportunity (or more) presents itself and the bigger 22 will be useful. I forget who said it first, but it's wise to choose a gun for the worst possible scenario, not just the average scenario...so for a coyote-dedicated gun I'd take the big .22.

The only reason that I shy away from the .243 or bigger is because of pelt damage...I like to keep them in one piece if possible. If you don't care, then the .243 is the way to go. Coyotes can definitely carry a lot of lead.

I didn't see if this is your first gun purchase. If so, and especially if you don't reload, then the .223 makes the most sense as a more versatile gun.

JMHO

John
 
shoota said:
wal mart and crappy tire carries them in bulk packsI am a noob when it comes to twist rates, what will a 1:9 .223 stabalize and what will a 1:12 .22-250 in a 22"
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Both calibers will shoot any bullet weights offered at those two stores. Unless your going to reload. :)
 
Shot a Sako 22-250 from my late teens well into my late 30's. Killed thousands of varmint critters, some yotes and one nice whitetail with it.

Kind of slid back to a nice little sako 222 varmint in my later years. Light recoil as one can see his hits through the optics, easy on barrel, cheap to load for and most of all...very mild report...important for killing doubles on yotes as many times have had the mate just stand by it's dead partner like there was no shot.

223 class guns also shine on high volume shoots if thats what your into...I'm talking 3-400 round days at prairie dogs, gophers and such. 22-250 is too much gun for this IMO.

With this said I must admit IMO there is no better factory chambered 22 cal. medium to long range round than the 22-250.
 
In answer to your twist rate question here is something I found to give you a general idea.

It takes less twist to stabilize a given bullet at high velocity than at low velocity. At the same velocity in the same caliber, longer (pointed) bullets require faster twist rates than shorter (round nose) bullets of the same weight and heavier bullets require faster twist rates than lighter bullets of the same shape. It is undesirable to spin a bullet a great deal faster than necessary, as this can degrade accuracy. A fast twist increases pressure and also the strain on the bullet jacket.

Taken from this web page. http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_barrel.htm

Every gun spits the bullet out a bit different so once you make your choice don't commit to a specific brand of ammo right away. Try a bunch and see what your gun likes... Good luck!
 
beaverfur said:
At 298 yards on a coyote, I would pick 22-250 all day. .22 cal recoil? seriously?
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^best answer yet. Recoil isn't a factor worth considering here.

22-250 is a better long range shooter. But the OP is in ON and probably won't need the extended range.

22-250 is quite a bit more expensive to feed if you don't reload, marginally so if you do reload. If you don't reload definitely go for the .223.

I'd expect an average 22-250 to do several thousand rounds before accuracy starts to fall off markedly. A .223 barrel will last somewhat longer than a 22-250. How much will the rifle be shot? If it's a hunting rig the barrel will probably last your lifetime in either cartridge.

I like the .223 for a coyote rifle a lot. As a specialised coyote gun the 22-250 is hard to beat. You can't really go wrong. If you reload go for the 22-250, if not get the .223.
 
tmlaqua said:
In answer to your twist rate question here is something I found to give you a general idea.

It takes less twist to stabilize a given bullet at high velocity than at low velocity. At the same velocity in the same caliber, longer (pointed) bullets require faster twist rates than shorter (round nose) bullets of the same weight and heavier bullets require faster twist rates than lighter bullets of the same shape. It is undesirable to spin a bullet a great deal faster than necessary, as this can degrade accuracy. A fast twist increases pressure and also the strain on the bullet jacket.

Taken from this web page. http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_barrel.htm

Every gun spits the bullet out a bit different so once you make your choice don't commit to a specific brand of ammo right away. Try a bunch and see what your gun likes... Good luck!
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This is true, but velocity doesn't buy you as big of an edge as you think. I've used quite a few high velocity wildcats over the years, and it will let you push up one (for lack of a better phrase) bullet weight (like X bullets let you drop down one bullet weight). Won't magically let you start shooting 90 gr 22 bullets from your 1-14 twist 22-250 though. FWIW - dan
 
I am going to only shoot maybe 200-300 rounds a year at the range with it, and maybe 30-40 rounds coyote hunting every year, is my .22-250 going to have a crap barrel in 5-10 years? And no this isn't my first gun purchase.
 
I get more joy out of target shooting with my .223 than the .22-250. The -250 has more muzzle jump and is louder. The .223 I can punch paper all day watching the hits, cheaper bulks packs and does everything a .22-250 will do inside 300 yards.


although I do take my .22-250 coyote hunting because I like the bit extra juice at 300 yards+
 
rral22 said:
No, you apparently skipped "as a coyote round" which is bold faced in my last post. I already said, as a pure coyote round I would actually pick a .243. I believe coyotes are very tough animals - pound for pound one of the toughest I hunt. If they were the size of black bears, people would be using very large rifles to deal with them.

After many years of hunting coyotes, I have come to believe the "extra powder-noise expense" is worth tolerating in order to take coyotes cleanly and humanely out to 300 yards and beyond. Even if you say you will not shoot that far, anyone who hunts them a lot knows you will end up "stretching" things at times.

If you are going to use a .22 center fire as your coyote gun I believe you will be better served by the .22-250. So I would modify your summation a bit.

If you shoot mostly smaller things and paper, and only occasionally use it for coyotes, and WILL keep the range under 300 yards, the .223 is the way to go. If you really want a gun for primarily coyotes, then the .22-250 is the better of the two in ways that will actually matter at times.
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LOL. People do actually use larger caliber rifles for bears.
 
I bought a stevens 22-250.Took it apart,custom paint black and hunter green,put a varmit scope on it.Works great, put some time in at the range,got used to it.Took it out hunting yotes, successful.All for under $480.00.It shoots twonie size groups at 250 yards.:cool:
 
rral22 said:
From the Nosler #4 manual (the #5 is in my reloading room) a 55 gr. Ballistic tip from a .223 starts at about 3200 fps and from a 200 yard zero will be -7" at 300 yards with 580 ft/lbs of energy left. From a .22-250 it starts at about 3700 fps, will be -5' at 300 yards with 806 ft/lbs of energy. That IS a difference a coyote will notice.

At 400 yards the same bullet from a .223 will have dropped 21.4 inches and have 436 ft/lbs of energy. From a .22-250 it will drop 15.3 inches and still have 618 ft/lbs of energy.

Anyone who thinks there is no difference in the two rounds as a coyote round is blind. The .22-250 is a superior coyote round at all ranges.
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rral22 said:
No, you apparently skipped "as a coyote round" which is bold faced in my last post. I already said, as a pure coyote round I would actually pick a .243. I believe coyotes are very tough animals - pound for pound one of the toughest I hunt. If they were the size of black bears, people would be using very large rifles to deal with them.

After many years of hunting coyotes, I have come to believe the "extra powder-noise expense" is worth tolerating in order to take coyotes cleanly and humanely out to 300 yards and beyond. Even if you say you will not shoot that far, anyone who hunts them a lot knows you will end up "stretching" things at times.

If you are going to use a .22 center fire as your coyote gun I believe you will be better served by the .22-250. So I would modify your summation a bit.

If you shoot mostly smaller things and paper, and only occasionally use it for coyotes, and WILL keep the range under 300 yards, the .223 is the way to go. If you really want a gun for primarily coyotes, then the .22-250 is the better of the two in ways that will actually matter at times.
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The OP would be best served by staying within his requirements, which was for a <300yard coyote round. Anyone with lots of hunting experience knows that the 2" difference at 300yards in your Nosler manuals don't mean spit in a hunting conditions. I may not be as old as dirt so I can only draw on my limited experience OR the coyotes running around central SK are pussies but any dog properly shot at <300M is just as dead no matter if the 55gr BT came from a .223 or .22-250.
 
In a control environment (like at the range) a .223 maybe very accurate -300M, BUT out in the windy open fields .22-250....sorry to said...IS THE KING. What I am trying to said is .223 and .22-250 will both likely get the job done. The only different is...you may have to retrieve it... if you shot it with a .223.... The .22-250 will drop it at-300M. Trust me, I know. lol
Cheers and Happy hunting.
 
Cinch said:
The OP would be best served by staying within his requirements, which was for a <300yard coyote round. Anyone with lots of hunting experience knows that the 2" difference at 300yards in your Nosler manuals don't mean spit in a hunting conditions. I may not be as old as dirt so I can only draw on my limited experience OR the coyotes running around central SK are pussies but any dog properly shot at <300M is just as dead no matter if the 55gr BT came from a .223 or .22-250.
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While the 2" doesn't mean much and can be easily compensated for, the 39% more energy of the .22-250 over the .223 at 300 yards is a real, useful difference, and cannot be made up by the shooter at all. At 400 yards the .22-250 has more energy than the .223 has at 300.

I already agreed in my post, if the shots at coyotes WILL be kept within 300 yards and lots of other shooting will be included, the .223 is a perfectly acceptable way to go. But the .22-250 is clearly a better coyote rifle.
 
I have shot so many coyotes over the years that I have lost count I've shot them with 22LR to 375 H&H and almost everything in between.

I just spent a week coyote hunting in Alberta shot 3 coyotes with the 223 and none with my 204 Ruger or 22-250 that I also had along only because I was having so much fun with my RA XCR-L.

There is far more to bullet path/trajectory when it comes to instantly knocking down coyotes I won't even call it energy I'll call it knocking them off their feet power.

Over 150 yards the 223 will not regularly knock a coyote down instantly it will kill it if you shot placement is good but it may run a long way before it drops and if your shot placement is off it can run a very long ways.

The 22-250 will repeatedly knock coyotes flat @ far greater distances than a 223 ever will so if distances are over 150 yards I'd grab my 22-250 and if they are greater than 300 yards I'd grab my 6mm-284 loaded with 70gr Ballistic Tips.
 
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