Another 45-70 Thread

Crazy.kayaker

Crazy.kayaker

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So I have a 45-70 TC with a 15" barrel pistol barrel on the rifle frame. The Rifle is Non restricted but I'm having a problem with making up a some hand loads for is since non of my manuals have anything that match it nor do any of the onlines have anything that match it.

All my manuals are for 16" and 16.5" barrels and for 300 grn loads and up and I have 250 grn hard cast loads I want to make up I forget what it is I need to do to calculate the difference to make up the difference for the lighter bullet and shorter barrel. Can anyone help me out with it never reloaded in the pistol section before.

Thanks
 
I am perhaps as confused as you are in what information you want. If I understand your post correctly, you are looking for some conversion formula that would allow you to calculate your load for the lighter bullet and shorter barrel, starting from some other load data?
Perhaps such a conversion formula exists, but I wouldn't depend on it.
If you have appropriate .458 diameter 250 grain bullets that you want to use in your carbine, then I would suggest you start with data for 300 grain bullets and a chronograph and work up an appropriate load that meets your requirements (desire) for load. The barrel length does not affect your choice of powder.
What kind of loads are you trying to develop with those 250 grain bullets - plinking, target, hunting?
 
I don't own a chronograph so that bit of advice is not helpful and I know no-one who owns one and at this time with reduced hours at work I can't afford one. As for what do I plan on doing with the rounds I have 250 or them so it depends on how accurate they are in my carbine so I really can't tell you till I actually try shooting a few.

Do I use more or less of the powder in the cartridge for the lighter bullet and if so what %. Or does it not matter at these bullet weights and velocities as much? Is that the more specific information your looking for? I realize I was a little VAGUE in my first post for which I apologize. I do not care how fast the bullet goes. I care about how ACCURATE the bullet is. I always inspect the brass after shooting a round for signs of over pressure.
 
You can start by using these loads from Lyman for a 292gr. cast bullet: SR-4759 26grs.-30grs for 1311fps-1602fps......RL-7 50grs-55grs for 1779fps-2011fps.....your short barrel will show less velocity, but the loads will be safe and on the light side. With bullets that light you might run into a case where the bullet is not offering enough resistance for proper burning/ignition esp. with the slower powders, and would result in "off" sounding shots and/or lots of unburnt powder in the barrel. In that case you might have to go to faster burning powders. Your idea sounds more like the old "gallery loads" for indoor use, as you will find that heavier/longer bullets will produce better accuracy albeit with increased recoil. Lyman also shows 12-15grs. of Unique with the light cast bullet and a dacron filler, this is an old standby load/powder for reduced loads.
 
I have a better understanding now. What Ben says for loads is good advice. But, if you just want to shoot them at targets, I would go with the Unique loads, with or without filer.
As a note, again, are your 250 grain bullets .458 in diameter, or are these pistol bullets (cast?)
I did not mean to be rude about using a chronograph, but they are a most useful tool for reloading.
 
Al-Sway said:
I have a better understanding now. What Ben says for loads is good advice. But, if you just want to shoot them at targets, I would go with the Unique loads, with or without filer.
As a note, again, are your 250 grain bullets .458 in diameter, or are these pistol bullets (cast?)
I did not mean to be rude about using a chronograph, but they are a most useful tool for reloading.
Click to expand...

Some of my best plinking type or light loads have been using 2400 or IMR 4227 with a filler called Stopdrafts foam backer rod cut to length. Another good lightload option is using Trailboss powder. Seems to work well:).
 
I never thought of that, you better make sure that they are .458 or .459", and not the .452" bullets meant for .45 cal. pistols. There are very few .458" molds out there that are for such a light bullet except the "collar button" designs or hollow base designs. Lyman's lightest is 292grs.
 
Johnn Peterson said:
Some of my best plinking type or light loads have been using 2400 or IMR 4227 with a filler called Stopdrafts foam backer rod cut to length. Another good lightload option is using Trailboss powder. Seems to work well:).
Click to expand...

Update:
First, as what ben hunchak and Al-sway have made mention of concerning handgun bullets and the difference in diameter, there is a very definate difference and a relevant point for accuracy. The cast I'm using in my 45LC and 45 ACP handguns measure out at 0.452" and what I'm using for rifle are 0.459" and 0.460"

There are a number of cast bullets I use in a Marlin 1895GS and a Pedersoli Sharps from a 325gr LFN GC to a 530gr LFN GC for my lighter loads as previously mentioned. Two of the best have been a 405gr BB and a 420gr LFN GC.
 
I'm feeling like a real idiot but I have a code of ethics that when I find I made a mistake I will admit it and take what ever punishment is deemed worthy of my mistake. After reading some of your posts about the round I did some additional research in to the 250 grn round and noticed some discrepancy's between the round I had and the round I was looking at on-line. So I took the rounds out and noticed how long they are and measured their dimensions they are .458 and are an astounding 405-408 grn in weight (lube accounts for the difference I'm thinking as some are more heavily lubed). Guess that is what happens when you listen to the guy who is selling them and take his word at face value. I bought a tub of Hardcast 405 grn rounds for 250 grn prices thinking I got the 250 grn rounds. Looks like I got me some heavy duty loads for knocking somethings teeth out and lots of them. Guess that means I got a good deal :D

Sorry about the trouble I caused as I truly thought I had 250 grn rounds right up till I put a few on my powder scale. Though the advice on the faster burning powder still holds true as I find with the factory ammo I have lots of un-burned powder in my bore and a mother of all flashes you can see even in day light if your not the shooter. I'll have to get me some faster burning powders as I only have medium burning powders at this time.
 
For medum, or heavy, loads with your heavy bullets, you want medium burning rifle powder. It is often said that 3031 is best for heavier loads. I have pretty well settled on 4895, either variety, as a very good powder for medium or heavy loads. I use from 40 to 50 grains, but the heaviest kick like a mule. For a good plinking load, and one that about equals the power of a factory load, I use 43 grains of 4895.
Other medium powders would also do. 4320 is very similar to 4895 and similar loadings would likely work fine. 4320 is one of the powders I tried, but not extensively enough to settle on a load.
Edited to say that 4198, in amounts a bit under 4895, is also good.
 
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That's a good part of the reason many of us are here. To learn and gain by the experience and from the info of others. We've all been down the road of small errors and mistakes so we're here in part to support and help each other out when the need arises.
 
So I have a 45-70 TC with a 15" barrel pistol barrel on the rifle frame.
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You will find the the trigger guard will rap the hell out of the knuckle on your index finger if you load those 405 grainer's much past a manual load of 1300fps.. You might want to tape some foam on the rear of your trigger guard until you find the load that you like..
 
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