simple- b/c if he drinks the chandler Kool-Aid then he develops tunnel vision and can't see improvements or what's blatantly obvious- it looks exactly the fulton Kool-Aid, and it's geared to there are no rifles but our rifles and our rifles are the best
another M14 critique
- Thread starter madashell
- Start date
Trust me when I say that if weapons maintenance/cleaning is occurring under fire, it's usually in the form of pouring CLP or oil into your gun and racking the action
I've, on numerous occasions, had my GPMG start to chug in a firefight, and the options are limited to more oil and adjusting the gas.
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Agreed the original poster needs a hug and a warm blankie.
Kayser Sose
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Van Isle
I like mine because its pretty in that parkerized-and-wood way, and I couldn't buy myself another G3, in all honesty.
2007 M14s, got a few loads for it and its all good, decently accurate actually. Even with the Chinese ammo.
Cost was a pleasant relief! So there's that...
I used to have a real M14, a looong time ago, that was fun...
The original post smells like troll. I like what I like.
2007 M14s, got a few loads for it and its all good, decently accurate actually. Even with the Chinese ammo.
Cost was a pleasant relief! So there's that...
I used to have a real M14, a looong time ago, that was fun...
The original post smells like troll. I like what I like.
I got myself an M305 last year, and I was very excited when I did. They're a beautiful looking rifle, nice sights, lots of mounting options, good calibre, etc. Mine was particularly well fitted, with the trigger group and gas system all very tight. I was hype.
...Until I examined the mechanism. I already knew the bolt was open-topped, which is meh, but not that unusual for rifles of the time. But the oprod looked flimsily designed, in that it's offset in two directions. (In other short stroke designs- T97, SKS, vz58, FAL, etc, everything is nice and linear.) I guess I knew about that too somewhat, but that's quite different from seeing it in person and how it all "fits" together. It struck me as something that could conceivably all pop apart if the stars were to align, and there are reports on this forum of it happening on occasion. That offset oprod interfaces with a roller and tracks that are wholly exposed to the elements, as are the tracks the bolt rides on, and there are wide gaps in the receiver that would make it easy for debris to get into everything, and hard for it to get out. My initial reaction to the mechanism was "this would be utterly unreliable in less than pristine conditions."
And it appeared my suspicions were correct-
https://www.full30.com/video/9eef6b3a4eb6c8846a4c8dc4b8968bc4
I also found all the typical things. It's very ammo sensitive, some quality ammo would group acceptably, others would give me a shotgun pattern. They need some work to be accurate. (I went and replaced a bunch of recommended parts and the groups did tighten noticeably for the ammo that shot well) Strip and assembly can cause POI shifts and you have to re-zero. I sold mine rather quickly after concluding much of the hype surrounding the rifle was just that.
Now don't get me wrong. They are VERY nice looking rifles, they are just gorgeous, particularly in wood. They CAN be very accurate, with work and if you pamper it. They're affordable, they shoot .308, which is everywhere and there's tons of options for. The recoil is very soft for a .308. These can be fantastic target and hunting rifles, and a fun project gun for those looking for that - someone who likes to be really invested in all the little tweaks and tricks.
In the 1930s, yes, the M1 was a top of the line, acceptably reliable rifle, compared to other semiautomatic rifles of that time. But that time ended, and to keep using that design post-war was, I think, negligent. There were legitimate reasons the M14 was swiftly replaced- it was the second shortest serving rifle in US military history- and anyone who holds it up as an old-school, wood-and-steel, utterly reliable legend needs to maybe take a closer look at it.
...Until I examined the mechanism. I already knew the bolt was open-topped, which is meh, but not that unusual for rifles of the time. But the oprod looked flimsily designed, in that it's offset in two directions. (In other short stroke designs- T97, SKS, vz58, FAL, etc, everything is nice and linear.) I guess I knew about that too somewhat, but that's quite different from seeing it in person and how it all "fits" together. It struck me as something that could conceivably all pop apart if the stars were to align, and there are reports on this forum of it happening on occasion. That offset oprod interfaces with a roller and tracks that are wholly exposed to the elements, as are the tracks the bolt rides on, and there are wide gaps in the receiver that would make it easy for debris to get into everything, and hard for it to get out. My initial reaction to the mechanism was "this would be utterly unreliable in less than pristine conditions."
And it appeared my suspicions were correct-
https://www.full30.com/video/9eef6b3a4eb6c8846a4c8dc4b8968bc4
I also found all the typical things. It's very ammo sensitive, some quality ammo would group acceptably, others would give me a shotgun pattern. They need some work to be accurate. (I went and replaced a bunch of recommended parts and the groups did tighten noticeably for the ammo that shot well) Strip and assembly can cause POI shifts and you have to re-zero. I sold mine rather quickly after concluding much of the hype surrounding the rifle was just that.
Now don't get me wrong. They are VERY nice looking rifles, they are just gorgeous, particularly in wood. They CAN be very accurate, with work and if you pamper it. They're affordable, they shoot .308, which is everywhere and there's tons of options for. The recoil is very soft for a .308. These can be fantastic target and hunting rifles, and a fun project gun for those looking for that - someone who likes to be really invested in all the little tweaks and tricks.
In the 1930s, yes, the M1 was a top of the line, acceptably reliable rifle, compared to other semiautomatic rifles of that time. But that time ended, and to keep using that design post-war was, I think, negligent. There were legitimate reasons the M14 was swiftly replaced- it was the second shortest serving rifle in US military history- and anyone who holds it up as an old-school, wood-and-steel, utterly reliable legend needs to maybe take a closer look at it.
I have 3 Norincos and one M1A and love them all. my M1A is in .243 Winchester and has shot .7 MOA. Working on the rest. P.S. does anyone know where in Canada I can get my hands on a M1a Shuster adjustable gas plug? Don't get me wrong the AR10 is a beautiful platform but I cannot take it out hunting in this country.
There ain't no trolling involved. I found the article, read it and posted. Also stated wish I spent the dough AR10 types. You ever regret spending a bunch on a platform and later wish you had not? If you think that's trolling go change your diapers.
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An OBJECTIVE post imo. Thank you.
This is why wish I essentially left them stock. They are a real money pit and you will NEVER get a reasonable amount back out of it. I actually like my M14's but wouldn't do it over again.
I took someone else's advice and got 2.....Like a few others have said, take what some of these critics say with a grain of salt. Want bughole type accuracy? Buy a bolt gun or an AR platform designed for that. There is a lot of "tweaking" one can do with the Norinco M14 clones that will not break the bank. After that, if one has the spare cash, your are now spending a lot of money to try to get to bolt gun or AR platform accuracy. Remember that this Platform was designed to be a military grade rifle, meant to perform in less than ideal conditions. Also remember that the design of the M14 was based upon the design of the Garand which was designed in the 1930"s.....
This has been a very informative and interesting thread. Sadly after reading all of this, I am STILL on the fence about buying an M1A. I've always had my heart set on an LRB M25, but I worry about excessive and esoteric maintenance and require the to get it running reliably and accurately.
well boys..... the rifles I built for myself don't require all this tender loving care everybody seems to think the platforms require to be adequately reliable for civilian or shtf scenarios/usage...... even entering the discussion or debate about this guys blog is to me a complete waste of time.
I've handled/built/shot more of these rifles than most Canadians will ever see and from my standpoint anyone who uses threads like this to "imform themselves" on their potential purchase is being misguided.
you either like the platform or you don't, you either got a bad one or you didn't..... and if you didn't, it doesn't take big pockets to have a reliably accurate rifle that will serve you well for your entire life as a civilian owner.
anyhow, I said I wasn't gonna take part in this discussion because the entire thing is just a bunch of hawgwash LOL
none of us need our m14 type rifles to perform to the standards of warfare..... unless yer a die hard shooting service rifle ranges every day of your life.
the whole discussion is really quite moot.
if yer m14 type rifle shoots 100 yard groups in and under 3" , you have a keeper
if yer m14 type rifle shoots 1.5" or better..... congrats, your rifle meets US military designated marksman standards
I didn't make that up, those are US military standards.
I've handled/built/shot more of these rifles than most Canadians will ever see and from my standpoint anyone who uses threads like this to "imform themselves" on their potential purchase is being misguided.
you either like the platform or you don't, you either got a bad one or you didn't..... and if you didn't, it doesn't take big pockets to have a reliably accurate rifle that will serve you well for your entire life as a civilian owner.
anyhow, I said I wasn't gonna take part in this discussion because the entire thing is just a bunch of hawgwash LOL
none of us need our m14 type rifles to perform to the standards of warfare..... unless yer a die hard shooting service rifle ranges every day of your life.
the whole discussion is really quite moot.
if yer m14 type rifle shoots 100 yard groups in and under 3" , you have a keeper
if yer m14 type rifle shoots 1.5" or better..... congrats, your rifle meets US military designated marksman standards
I didn't make that up, those are US military standards.
There you have it. A realistic assessment of the practicality of the M1A platform, courtesy of a guy with a truckload of practical experience...vs. a slagging of the platform, written by a "journalist" who can't write (don't know if he can shoot), brought to you courtesy of an owner with buyer's remorse (don't know if he can shoot either) and an obsession with "heavy field use".
Who you gonna call?
Who you gonna call?
Will be keeping my M305, no trigger work, in an EBR, + $600 worth of upgrades...still think I could use H2Os trigger shoe. I am a hands on owner and enjoyed every step of the way learning about this set up. She runs smooth and less than 2" with norinco surplus.
Incomplete article.
Incomplete article.
I actually love those kind of thread. It sparks discussions and give life to the forum.
I have to say I felt exactly as Jarvy when I disassembled the m305 for the first time. What an odd mechanism! The bolt free floating inside the oprod was a point of concern for me. However I've decided to keep it and give it a go anyway. My only regret now was to not buy a 22'' but I didn't know much about the rifle back then, I just took what was there lol. It's very fun to shoot with it and work on it as well. The loud bang followed by the ping is very satisfying.
I have to say I felt exactly as Jarvy when I disassembled the m305 for the first time. What an odd mechanism! The bolt free floating inside the oprod was a point of concern for me. However I've decided to keep it and give it a go anyway. My only regret now was to not buy a 22'' but I didn't know much about the rifle back then, I just took what was there lol. It's very fun to shoot with it and work on it as well. The loud bang followed by the ping is very satisfying.
Meh..opinions are like azzholes. I will say no semi 223 ever put a smile on my face like my m14 does. Never had an AR stick around for long. An ar does as much for me as a cooey 39, less actually I like cooeys. Every time I pick up the m14 my #### moves a little. Ymmv
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Myself I was convinced by a very good friend to buy his Polytech, as he needed the funds for another new purchase. I've had this one rifle for just over one decade now. And I am not going to get rid of it any time soon. My friend has since, very recently, purchased an M305 as well.
I own a Springfield M1a loaded. It's a thing of beauty to hold and huge fun to shoot accurately. The history of the M 14 platform is fascinating but does not detract from that experience. I also own an LMT 308 MWS and the feel and shooting experience is completely different. I love it as well. Neither rifle is going to war, so I'm content to enjoy their differences without worrying about which is the better battle rifle.
I think, however, that if it had not been for the Vietnam war the US would not likely have adopted the AR platform and would likely have kept the M 14 and the 7.62 cartridge as long as the other NATO countries. In which case, we would not have the multiple varieties of the AR platform ( 15 or 10! ) so popular today.
I think, however, that if it had not been for the Vietnam war the US would not likely have adopted the AR platform and would likely have kept the M 14 and the 7.62 cartridge as long as the other NATO countries. In which case, we would not have the multiple varieties of the AR platform ( 15 or 10! ) so popular today.
