Another Newby Flintlock Question

Loyer

Loyer

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I have a modern .54 cal Euroarms flintlock

I have fired it about 10 times now using .530 ball. Loading it with pre-lubed CVA patches (.50 to .58 cal) seems tight.

I also have two boxes of .535 balls that are untried yet.

Question: Can the larger lead balls be fired without patches
 
Basically no as there no gain in doing it.You will probably lead the bore if done enough and the barrel will foul after a couple of shots because of not having any lubricant to soften the fouling.Also accuracy will suffer greatly.This was done in a emergency when frontiersmen found themselves in a firefight and had to loadquickly in a do or die situation but was not done on a day to day basis.Hell a lot of those guys actually put lead balls in the mouth to speed up loading in those situations,talk about your lead poisoning lol
 
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Loyer said:
I have a modern .54 cal Euroarms flintlock

I have fired it about 10 times now using .530 ball. Loading it with pre-lubed CVA patches (.50 to .58 cal) seems tight.

I also have two boxes of .535 balls that are untried yet.

Question: Can the larger lead balls be fired without patches
Click to expand...

Try old rags or thin ancient pillowcases on a relatively clean Bore yet?
 
tokguy said:
Try old rags or thin ancient pillowcases on a relatively clean Bore yet?
Click to expand...

This is the thing to try. Thin tight weave cotton and moose milk or whatever lube you like. You want to use a ball/patch combo that fills the rifling and isn't too difficult to load. Shallow rifling - try a bigger ball and thin patch. Deep rifling try a smaller ball and thicker patching. Experiments are required as I don't think there's a perfect formula.

A good tight fit is often what gives the best accuracy but you comprise so that it doesn't take a hammer to start or seat the ball.

A ball without a fabric patch might work a little like a maxi ball but you need to find a way to combine it with some lube and you need it to grip the rifling somehow. Both will present challenges more complicated than using the right diameter ball and patch combination.
 
We tend to forget that lead is by it's very nature, quite plastic and as far a metal goes...it is slippery. We don't do it anymore...but 30 years ago the Drill Collar dope was very heavy due to the lead in it. The lead stopped steel to steel galling on Collars threads torqued to 24,000 ft pounds.
Read 'Six Guns'. Bullets bump up insanely fast...Elmer removed barrels and shot them...the bullets were bumped to a surprising oversize before they cleared the frame.
Don't be too scared of the BP myths.
Please don't use anything but BP ( or substitute on modern guns), no air gap... then have fun.
No respecting fellow would shoot a BP without a lubed wad...yet people shoot cap and ball with only lightly lubed balls all the time. Because it isn't 'cricket' doesn't mean it can't be done.
Raid the linen closet and get an old pillow case...see of it'll work...might have to clean it more often. A blow through pipe to clear the smoke is supposed to work well too.
 
Lead being a lubricant is partly why it was in gasoline too. Useful stuff. Use as a sweetener in candy turned out to be a bad idea though....

Not sure how well a round ball would bump up on ignition if there isn't much more than it's mass holding it in place as pressure builds. It's definitely a useful phenomena in cartridge rifles.
Don't recall the make or model but one military experimented with a spike on the breech plug to ram the bullet against in an attempt to upset it into the rifling grooves. Probably limited the powder capacity severely.
 
tokguy said:
I think the British used some crazy stuff on .577 Snider Enfields. Clay plugs in the hollow base and such.
Click to expand...

Correct!

I was going to remind the OP of an appropriately sized R.E.A.L boolit. If you want to do away with patching, I'd recommend you shoot R.E.A.L. projectiles. (or he could make up some clay plugs?:cheers:)

I have literally shot these all day without cleaning the bore. I use Bore Butter as a lube, ymmv.
 
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Painkillers said:
Correct!

I was going to remind the OP of an appropriately sized R.E.A.L boolit. If you want to do away with patching,
Click to expand...


Keep in mind that at least in BC, muzzle loading competitions and practice shooting on trail walks are limited to round ball. On at least one speed shooting event, a shooter loaded an unpatched ball and had it roll forward a bit, resulting in a bulged barrel

cheers mooncoon
 
I would not shoot lead balls without a lubed patch around it. The patch obturates the bore, engages rifling, impart spin to the ball, and reduces fouling between shots. Otherwise you would need a ball wider than the groove to groove diameter which would be a ##### to load. Cap and ball get away with no patch because they are loaded into a non-rifled chamber then shot (hopefully) down a smaller diameter barrel.
I think your bigger ball needs a thinner patch than the smaller ball, but try it. Thinner cotton patches can be found at fabric land or track of the wolf. Hopefully you have a ball starter, essential for such rifles. Try and try again, and you'll get the load that loads easy enough, and is most accurate.
 
Loyer said:
I have a modern .54 cal Euroarms flintlock

I have fired it about 10 times now using .530 ball. Loading it with pre-lubed CVA patches (.50 to .58 cal) seems tight.

I also have two boxes of .535 balls that are untried yet.

Question: Can the larger lead balls be fired without patches
Click to expand...

Take a trip off to Fabricland, take a set of calipers with you, stand in the middle of the store looking helpless until someone takes pity on you, tell em you want the tightest weave all natural (cotton) fabric they have, preferably on sale.

You'll probably find a few different thicknesses, You should be able to get a square metre of something for $15-$20(ish). Stuff that is ironed smooth (like a suit) loads really well. Buy a couple different thicknesses - or more. You probably won't find anything less than 0.010" anyway. but if some of it does not work out - you can use it for cleaning patches ;)

Cut it into strips, roll it up and let soak in your favourite lube - I stuck mine in a little tub with lube and let it sit in the hot car for a few days.

patches.jpg


Cut as needed - you get a perfect patch every time for less than half the cost of buying them AND you don't have to buy a bunch of different sized pre cuts! :) (there are other downsides to pre cut patches as well...)

consulting the internet, sounds like those patches are 0.015" thick - making your total load 0.560" diameter, if that "seems tight" an 0.010" patch would probably make loading much easier. Though a smaller ball and thicker patch would probably be better for accuracy. (easier to load, better engagement of the rifling and less tendency for the patch to tear)


But to answer the actual question " Can the larger lead balls be fired without patches" :)

Sure, why not - but you won't have any accuracy - the patches are there to engage the rifling, i.e. without one, your ball probably won't spin, without a patch you get too much blow by and loss of pressure. :(

Hang onto them (the larger balls) maybe down the road you will find a gun that likes them, sell them, melt em down and cast different sized balls... whatever - it's not like a box of balls is expensive.
 
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