Another scope thread

flandersander

Regular
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
Location
Saskatoon, sk
Hi everybody. I know I know another scope thread. I'm looking at the vortex viper pst 6-24x50 ebr-1 Moa reticle.

I've got questions about some features I have no experience with.

How nice is a zero stop feature. I know it's not necessary, but is it something you wouldn't live without, once you have it?

I have no interest ranging with a reticle, and like a fine cross hair. This means second focal plane would be better for me, right?

How "fine" is the ebr-1 Moa reticle? I like a high magnification look at my target. When shooting my 10/22 at 70 to 100 yards, I like to be on a 9 power mag setting.

Is there a big difference between a 50mm and a 56mm objective?

I also looked at a minox za5 6-30x56. I liked everything about it, except you had to keep a protective cover on the turrets and the turrets had a soft mushy click.

I've never had a scope with an illuminated reticle before. How useful is it during broad daylight? Or is it mainly for use in low lit situations?

I think that's everything for now. I look forward to your response.

Ps. This will be going on a 308 for hunting and eventually a 223 for longer range plinking

Thanks

Flandersander
 
I have had the illuminated reticle and it is grossly overrated and ugly on top of a nice rifle, unless you are into the "tacticool" thing

bigger objective 50 vs 56 is for light gathering. If the weight is not a concern than the 56 would be brighter than a 50 among the same company. However the quality of the scope ect will truly determine how bright it is, you could have a 400mm objective on an NCstar and it will still suck!

What sets the FFP above the SFP if you aren't using it for ranging is that for Hold-overs at any given magnification on the FFP the distance between the reticle lines will be absolutly the same whereas on a SFP the reticle is only true on one magnification setting.

I would say get a sightron as I love mine and probably 10 other people that chime in will say the same thing. The nice thing about SFP with a sightron is that in there manual they provide the distance between marks in the reticle at all magnification settings so if you really like say 10X power or 32X power you will always know what your holdover will be. It is also possible to get their ranging reticles without the illumination knob. Good luck on your purchase!

Evan
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the response. The 50 vs 56 means more light gathered, but how much more? Is it a significant amount?


I have had the illuminated reticle and it is grossly overrated and ugly on top of a nice rifle, unless you are into the "tacticool" thing

bigger objective 50 vs 56 is for light gathering. If the weight is not a concern than the 56 would be brighter than a 50 among the same company. However the quality of the scope ect will truly determine how bright it is, you could have a 400mm objective on an NCstar and it will still suck!

What sets the FFP above the SFP if you aren't using it for ranging is that for Hold-overs at any given magnification on the FFP the distance between the reticle lines will be absolutly the same whereas on a SFP the reticle is only true on one magnification setting.

I would say get a sightron as I love mine and probably 10 other people that chime in will say the same thing. The nice thing about SFP with a sightron is that in there manual they provide the distance between marks in the reticle at all magnification settings so if you really like say 10X power or 32X power you will always know what your holdover will be. It is also possible to get their ranging reticles without the illumination knob. Good luck on your purchase!

Evan
 
Which Sightron are using?

I have had the illuminated reticle and it is grossly overrated and ugly on top of a nice rifle, unless you are into the "tacticool" thing

I would say get a sightron as I love mine and probably 10 other people that chime in will say the same thing. The nice thing about SFP with a sightron is that in there manual they provide the distance between marks in the reticle at all magnification settings so if you really like say 10X power or 32X power you will always know what your holdover will be. It is also possible to get their ranging reticles without the illumination knob. Good luck on your purchase!

Evan
 
Just thinking, is the magnification on a scope linear? Say the specified magnification is 12x. Would the graduations in the reticle be twice the moa/mils at 24x? No, half. I don't know. If so, it would be easy to write down all the drops at all mags like in the sightron manual

Even if the graduations stay the same at higher mags in a ffp, I don't think it would be worth it, for such a thick cross hair at full magnification. More like a cross tow-rope.
 
Hi everybody. I know I know another scope thread. I'm looking at the vortex viper pst 6-24x50 ebr-1 Moa reticle.
I've got questions about some features I have no experience with.
How nice is a zero stop feature. I know it's not necessary, but is it something you wouldn't live without, once you have it?
I have no interest ranging with a reticle, and like a fine cross hair. This means second focal plane would be better for me, right?
How "fine" is the ebr-1 Moa reticle? I like a high magnification look at my target. When shooting my 10/22 at 70 to 100 yards, I like to be on a 9 power mag setting.
Is there a big difference between a 50mm and a 56mm objective?
I also looked at a minox za5 6-30x56. I liked everything about it, except you had to keep a protective cover on the turrets and the turrets had a soft mushy click.
I've never had a scope with an illuminated reticle before. How useful is it during broad daylight? Or is it mainly for use in low lit situations?
I think that's everything for now. I look forward to your response.
Ps. This will be going on a 308 for hunting and eventually a 223 for longer range plinking
Thanks,
Flandersander

So here are your questions, answered in order;

1. How nice is a zero stop feature. I know it's not necessary, but is it something you wouldn't live without, once you have it?

The zero stop is exactly as you imagine. Not necessary, but nice to have. For the most part, you won't really use it when your hunting, because you'll be within maximum point blank range when you're hunting (probably) and aren't going to make in-field adjustments. You'd potentially make use of the zero stop when you're setting or testing your zero, but otherwise your adjustments would stay the same. Simply put if you're not adjusting your elevation, then you will never need a zero stop.

You also mentioned you'll be plinking long range later. Here is where you may potentially use it, but again not "needed". I think the true utility is in quick multiple variable distance targets where you'll have to go back and forth over a large elevation range, where you could potentially get 'lost' in the dials, but even when target shooting, it often isn't the case.

Lastly, for what it is worth, I have a zero stop on my scope, and I use it on occasion to give me a warm and fuzzy feeling that I'm on the right rotation, despite the fact every logical thought knows I am, I sometimes doubt myself.

2. I have no interest ranging with a reticle, and like a fine cross hair. This means second focal plane would be better for me, right?

Well, firstly the reticle. Perhaps yes, you may not be ranging with the reticle, however if you begin to plink at long distance with your future .223 you'll be up against wind. While yes you can dial to correct for the wind, you'd be dialing the average wind, and it may be gusting. So, you can't be dialing the wind for every change from the average windspeed, so you'll hold off to correct for the change from what you've dialed and shoot. Now you can gut feel the correction with a cross hair reticle, but it would be much wiser/accurate to estimate the wind change, determine the correction in moa and hold off on the reticle and shoot. So while no, you may not ever need a ranging reticle to range distances, it will certainly be helpful for on the fly wind corrections.

Second Focal Plane and thin reticles. Firstly on this, I would personally dis-associate the correlation between second focal plane and thin reticles. Simply because it isn't always true. I would rather evaluate the thickness of the reticle on a scope vs another scope based on what the reticle subtensions are listed in the product manual. I'll address your particular riflescope specifically in a later question.

As for reinforcing the difference between first and second focal plane in terms of reticle thickness at given magnifications,

Second Focal Plane : Second focal plane reticle thickness doubles in moa/mil when you drop the magnification in half. So if you are at 16x power and your reticle is .1moa thick, at 8x power it will be .2 moa thick. (Sidenote: Not all labels for the magnification power line up perfectly for the "actual" power, ex. 8x label may be pointing at 7.5x)

First Focal Plane : First focal plane reticle thickness remains constant at whatever magnification you are at. So if you are at 16x power and your reticle is .1moa thick, at 8x power it will also be .1moa thick.

3. How "fine" is the ebr-1 Moa reticle?

I will refer you directly to Vortex's Website which lists the EBR-1 MOA reticle subtensions on this diagram. Specifically the thinnest line is .1moa thick at maximum magnification / 16x power. This means that it would cover up one tenth of a inch at 100 yards.

4. Is there a big difference between a 50mm and a 56mm objective?

Unfortunately all I have is here say on the subject as I only possess at 56mm objective scope. With that said, from what I have heard it is of little difference and allows the image to appear marginally/potentially insignificantly brighter at higher magnifications. I would not get caught up in which size objective is right for you, but rather that the scope is of quality, and contains the feature set you are looking for.

5. I've never had a scope with an illuminated reticle before. How useful is it during broad daylight? Or is it mainly for use in low lit situations?

I have a red illuminated reticle on my scope, and I have not personally seen any "utility" to it use in broad daylight, although you can certainly see the red in the daylight. If anything the reticle would appear less crisp, providing less defined lines in the reticle due to the glow of the red. However it does look cool, in my opinion anyways.

As for low lit situations, I can absolutely see the utility, here you do not have to put it on as high of power as you would during the day, so you don't get the poorly defined line glow I mentioned earlier, and helps the reticle not get lost in the dark, especially if you have a fine reticle. However this feature again is not useful if you do not find yourself in low lit situations.

6. I think that's everything for now. I look forward to your response.

Hope it was what you were looking for, and I hope it helps you out. Besides answering your questions, I thought I'd say good choice on the moa reticle, I have one as well. I find that despite living in a metric society, I still estimate lengths and distances in imperial, and the mental math is much easier using moa for that. Additionally there are a lot of ranges that are still measured in yards as well. Just my 2 cents anyways.

Cheers.
 
Illuminated reticle is of very limited utility in my opinion. There are few times I have ever made use of mine.

Zero stop is critical to me, I would not go back after owning them.
 
So here are your questions, answered in order;

1. How nice is a zero stop feature. I know it's not necessary, but is it something you wouldn't live without, once you have it?

The zero stop is exactly as you imagine. Not necessary, but nice to have. For the most part, you won't really use it when your hunting, because you'll be within maximum point blank range when you're hunting (probably) and aren't going to make in-field adjustments. You'd potentially make use of the zero stop when you're setting or testing your zero, but otherwise your adjustments would stay the same. Simply put if you're not adjusting your elevation, then you will never need a zero stop.

You also mentioned you'll be plinking long range later. Here is where you may potentially use it, but again not "needed". I think the true utility is in quick multiple variable distance targets where you'll have to go back and forth over a large elevation range, where you could potentially get 'lost' in the dials, but even when target shooting, it often isn't the case.

Lastly, for what it is worth, I have a zero stop on my scope, and I use it on occasion to give me a warm and fuzzy feeling that I'm on the right rotation, despite the fact every logical thought knows I am, I sometimes doubt myself.

2. I have no interest ranging with a reticle, and like a fine cross hair. This means second focal plane would be better for me, right?

Well, firstly the reticle. Perhaps yes, you may not be ranging with the reticle, however if you begin to plink at long distance with your future .223 you'll be up against wind. While yes you can dial to correct for the wind, you'd be dialing the average wind, and it may be gusting. So, you can't be dialing the wind for every change from the average windspeed, so you'll hold off to correct for the change from what you've dialed and shoot. Now you can gut feel the correction with a cross hair reticle, but it would be much wiser/accurate to estimate the wind change, determine the correction in moa and hold off on the reticle and shoot. So while no, you may not ever need a ranging reticle to range distances, it will certainly be helpful for on the fly wind corrections.

Second Focal Plane and thin reticles. Firstly on this, I would personally dis-associate the correlation between second focal plane and thin reticles. Simply because it isn't always true. I would rather evaluate the thickness of the reticle on a scope vs another scope based on what the reticle subtensions are listed in the product manual. I'll address your particular riflescope specifically in a later question.

As for reinforcing the difference between first and second focal plane in terms of reticle thickness at given magnifications,

Second Focal Plane : Second focal plane reticle thickness doubles in moa/mil when you drop the magnification in half. So if you are at 16x power and your reticle is .1moa thick, at 8x power it will be .2 moa thick. (Sidenote: Not all labels for the magnification power line up perfectly for the "actual" power, ex. 8x label may be pointing at 7.5x)

First Focal Plane : First focal plane reticle thickness remains constant at whatever magnification you are at. So if you are at 16x power and your reticle is .1moa thick, at 8x power it will also be .1moa thick.

3. How "fine" is the ebr-1 Moa reticle?

I will refer you directly to Vortex's Website which lists the EBR-1 MOA reticle subtensions on this diagram. Specifically the thinnest line is .1moa thick at maximum magnification / 16x power. This means that it would cover up one tenth of a inch at 100 yards.

4. Is there a big difference between a 50mm and a 56mm objective?

Unfortunately all I have is here say on the subject as I only possess at 56mm objective scope. With that said, from what I have heard it is of little difference and allows the image to appear marginally/potentially insignificantly brighter at higher magnifications. I would not get caught up in which size objective is right for you, but rather that the scope is of quality, and contains the feature set you are looking for.

5. I've never had a scope with an illuminated reticle before. How useful is it during broad daylight? Or is it mainly for use in low lit situations?

I have a red illuminated reticle on my scope, and I have not personally seen any "utility" to it use in broad daylight, although you can certainly see the red in the daylight. If anything the reticle would appear less crisp, providing less defined lines in the reticle due to the glow of the red. However it does look cool, in my opinion anyways.

As for low lit situations, I can absolutely see the utility, here you do not have to put it on as high of power as you would during the day, so you don't get the poorly defined line glow I mentioned earlier, and helps the reticle not get lost in the dark, especially if you have a fine reticle. However this feature again is not useful if you do not find yourself in low lit situations.

6. I think that's everything for now. I look forward to your response.

Hope it was what you were looking for, and I hope it helps you out. Besides answering your questions, I thought I'd say good choice on the moa reticle, I have one as well. I find that despite living in a metric society, I still estimate lengths and distances in imperial, and the mental math is much easier using moa for that. Additionally there are a lot of ranges that are still measured in yards as well. Just my 2 cents anyways.

Cheers.


Thank you so much! Exactly the type of answer I was hoping for. Thank you for taking the time to respond. Very helpful. :)
 
I'm also thinking about a 6-24x or 8-32x scope, but it's hard to choose.


On the topic of 50 vs 56 mm objectives. Theoretically the light gathered will be proportional to the area of the objective, which is pi*r^2. So the relative difference should be (56/50)^2 = 1.2544, or in other words 25% more light with the larger objective. However, you should consider this in the context of the larger diameter usually showing up for higher mag scopes. If you compare a 24x to 32x mag scope, we can assume the 32x mag will have 75% of the field of view of the 24x mag, or in other words less target area to gather light from, so the larger objective will almost even things out, 1.2544*0.75 = 0.94.

Another theoretical consideration is the exit diameter of light going into your eye. From what I've read, the diameter of light coming out of the scope is equal to the objective diameter divided by magnification. So for example, a 56 mm diameter at 32x power will yield 1.75 mm, and a 50 mm diameter at 24x power will yield 2.08 mm. The smaller exit diameter, the harder it is to find. The average human eye accepts about 5 mm in the daytime and 7 mm at night.
 
i bought the pst 6-24x50 sfp, i like it, that being said you could also look at a zeiss conquest 4.5-14 if memory serves me correctly, ~$1000 here in cold lake, with a pain duplex reticule, the glass is very clear and the reticule is just as fine and a lot less busy if you're not interested in ranging. i haven't played with the zero stop feature as i read the manual after i got back from the range but it's easy to set up, and the illuminated reticule to my eye doesn't really work in broad daylight.
 
i bought the pst 6-24x50 sfp, i like it, that being said you could also look at a zeiss conquest 4.5-14 if memory serves me correctly, ~$1000 here in cold lake, with a pain duplex reticule, the glass is very clear and the reticule is just as fine and a lot less busy if you're not interested in ranging. i haven't played with the zero stop feature as i read the manual after i got back from the range but it's easy to set up, and the illuminated reticule to my eye doesn't really work in broad daylight.

Ouch..

Could have brought you one from Calgary for around $830. Time is money though!

Glad you like it. The zero stop are just shims. Take cap off, stack shims in 180 degree arrangement, place cap back on.

After shooting my Vortex PST beside a Sightron SIII 8-32, NF NSX, and NF ATACS, I still whole heartily agree that the Vortex is best 800-850$ scope. Even comparable to the 1000$ SIII considering it's knobs turn too easy, it's parallax turns too hard, and it has no zero stop. You can now get one but it's like $1400.

NSX doesn't have much over the SIII with zero stop in my books.

I posted my review awhile ago on another thread for the Vortex haters. Sub 1000 = Vortex, 1000-1800 - Sightron, 1800+ well I'd need to try scopes that aren't NF, because they haven't been impressing me for the cost. I did like the ATACS wide viewing angle. That's a very nice feature, but I think it runs around $2800?
 
I read your review and it was quite helpful, the Zeiss was about $1G with nice glass and a simple reticle was all, I paid $850 before taxes and they mounted it for me no fuss.
 
Back
Top Bottom