I have researched the 8x57 Carcano versions on the Internet and found a fair bit of information. I think the Carcano action is a much stronger one than a lot of people give it credit for. As SMELLIE says, in WWI it was "that superb rifle of our glorious Italian allies," but in WWII, the same rifle was "that Italian piece of crap."
In a couple of cases where YUGO 1950s 8x57 ammunition was used, there were two "blow ups" that I found with the Carcano. The action held, but the barrel was destroyed. However, there were several other posts I found where 98 Mausers and other rifles suffered the same fate when this same ammunition was used. Apparently the brass in the cases was found to be brittle.
Here are a couple of articles that I found.
German Lesson
The German conversion of the Carcano to 8mm is much clearer and precisely documented. They were the product of the well known Heinrich Krieghoff firm and produced in haste for the last ditch defense of Germany in the hands of all able bodied men between the ages of 16 and 60, the Deutscher Volkssturm Wehrmacht--the "German People's Assault Army".
Made as repeaters but mostly as single shots, the German 8mm Carcanos carry the "HK" logo stamp on the receiver ring while the caliber is marked on the barrel shank and the bolt is electro-penciled to the serial number of the receiver. There were probably less than 8,000 M38 short rifles, M41 long rifles and M91 and M38 cavalry carbines converted by HK. If you find one, you have indeed grabbed the Carcano collector's brass ring!
A lesser known fact and a bit of historical irony is Carcanos in 6.5x52 and 7.35x51, confiscated by the Germans when Italy ceased being an ally, were the most widely distributed small arms supplied to the Volkssturm for the final defense of the Fatherland. They may or may not be found marked with an eagle-over-swastika stamp.
The conversion of the Carcano to a case 57mm in length required the front receiver ring be notched, the supporting shoulder behind the lower locking lug seat be relieved, the wood in the magazine well be hogged out or plugged and stock reinforcing cross-bolts be added behind the recoil lug and through the wrist of the stock. The existing Italian barrels were bored out and re-rifled.
Questionable?
The only aspect of the conversion which is questionable is the removal of supporting metal behind the lower locking lug recess if the conversion was made as a repeater. In most of the German conversions, the magazine well was plugged, making the Volkssturm Carcano a single shot. Finally, the 6-round Carcano clip was modified in some form or shape to accept and feed six 8x57 cartridges.
Should you shoot an 8x57 Carcano? They would not have been converted to 8mm if the end result were a bomb. Out of curiosity, I've shot my petite, light weight, T.S. carbine as a single shot with 8x57 military ball. The resulting recoil and muzzle blast are pretty tough to enjoy. I would suggest you simply collect the 8mm Carcano for the unique WWII artifact it is and select a Mauser 98 for your 8mm plinking.
Plenty of 6.5mm Carcanos can be found at gunshows. The 7.35mm and 8mm variations are much less common. If the price is right, don't pass them by.
FURTHER READIN
THE CARCANO BY RICHARD HOBBS. SOFTBOUND, 70 PAGES. SELF-PUBLISHED AND CURRENTLY OUT-OF-PRINT. LOOK FOR IT ON THE USED BOOK MARKET. DESPERATE MEASURES-THE LAST DITCH WEAPONS OF THE NAZI VOLKSSTURM BY W. DARRIN WEAVER. HARDCOVER, 394 PAGES, $69.50. AVAILABLE FROM RAY RILING ARMS BOOKS CO., 6844 GORSTEN STREET, PHILADELPHIA, PA 19119. (215) 438-2456,
WWW.RAYRILINGARMSBOOKS.COM d
and another article
Italian 7.92mm Carcanos
The Italian models were made starting in 1941 at both the R.E. Terni and EN.A.-Brescia arsenals. Terni made approximately 10,000 Model T.S. carbines and Brescia, 5,000 T.S. carbines and 5,000 cavalry carbines. The 8x57 pictured in the article is a T.S. carbine made by Brescia. It features the caliber "7.9" stamped on the rear sight base and a serial number over the chamber portion of the barrel. The 7.92 Terni carbines are similarly marked but also include the arsenal stamp and year of production on the barrel shank.
MODEL 38 T.S. CARBINE
MAKER: FNA-Brescia
ACTION: Bolt action
CALIBER: 7.92x57
CAPACITY: 6 or blocked
as a single shot
BARREL LENGTH: 18"
OVERALL LENGTH: 36"
SIGHTS: 200 meter fixed
STOCK: Wood
WEIGHT: 7 pounds
Load information
If you look at the failure test for the rifle, it's up there at 94,000 psi chamber pressure. That's next to the Mauser '98. Not too bad for what that little rifle is
8x57IS Mauser (Reduced for Carcano Moschetto)
Bullet Cartridge Brass Primer Powder Cartridge Over All Length Performance Source of Data Comments
Weight Model Type Diameter Type Trim Length Type Weight Velocity V0 Energy E0
Grains Grams Inch mm Inch mm Grains Grams Inch mm ft/s m/s ft-lb joule
125 8.10 Hornady Spitzer Soft Point .323 8.20 Norma 201 40 2.59 Gianni La Capra
170 11.0 Hornady Round Nose .323 8.20 I-3031 35.0 2.27 mag via Tuco's Italian Firearms HotBoard I have gotten groups as good as 2.5 (inches) with this load.
200 12.96 Speer Soft Point .323 8.20 Federal 210 IMR 4895 39.0 2.53 graniteman via Tuco's Italian Firearms HotBoard
A Forum Post
I have three variations of this fun carbine. While Turk ammo is not the best ammo for this rifle due to the brass being brittle in some lots,I have shot many rounds of it. The Romanian steel cased ammo functioned very well and shot accurately. My range has a 36" gong at 600 yards and I was able to hit it 7 out of 10 shots. The sights are fixed and pretty robust but a slight hold over did the trick.
You as well as other members here know about the race to make their rifles out of the best steels in their day. The Swedes were touted as having the best steel in their rifles. The Italians did not want to be out done. The M1891 is as good and uses a stronger action to boot.
My State was involved in the "wives tale" law suit and a Carcano rifle was loaded for failure of the action. It never was done. The barrel was driven to split,but the action never failed. They stopped at 100,000 PSI.
The barrel was welded shut. The action held.
I've been collecting rifles since '64. Over the years I have bought many " Dangerous Carcano" rifles for next to nothing, and have never had a failure of any sort.
The surplus ammo is and always has been a problem due to poor war time manufacturing or storage. I do know of several occasions when the powder had broken down and detonated rather than burn ,blowing high pressure gasses and brass shards into the face of the shooter.
The 8mm Mauser Carcano looks to be an after thought, but in real life, it is a very well thought out short range combat weapon.
Clips can be made by altering the 6.5 clips using a gas torch and a home made mandrel. No clips are known to exist other than the one shown on the net.
and lastly an actual account of trying to blow up a Carcano
I've been attempting to blow up a M38 Carcano. This is a tangential offshoot of blowing up some '93-'96 Mausers. I rechambered it to 30-06 and eventually destroyed the bolt with a full case, 55.2 gr, of 4198 pushing a 180 bullet. This was after trying 3031. Basically nothing happened to the receiver/barrel. A sterling fellow on another thread where I've been reporting results (CastBoolits) donated two funky Carcano bolts to continue the tests. I worked loads from 32-40 gr Alliant 2400 and got lots of case head separations but no ruin. I asked the gentleman who provided the bolts to come up with something crazy and he suggested firing an 8x57 in it, which, I did. I had a loaded cartridge left over from the Mauser tests; it used a 220 gr Sierra boatail and 38 grs of 2400. This round destroyed two '96 Swedish actions and rendered an Oviedo '93 unserviceable. For the Carcano it was a walk in the park:
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