Sakoman .308
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
I look forward to the day in the future when I bring my Annie home, It will be a 1710 D HB.
Anschütz vs cooper
- Thread starter double gun
- Start date
Check out how many National, World class and Olympic championships in all kinds of .22 Rimfire shooting - prone, three-position, biathlon, have been won by Cooper.
Now do the same for Anschutz, and for the last forty-five-fifty years.
I declare it a no contest.
tac
Now do the same for Anschutz, and for the last forty-five-fifty years.
I declare it a no contest.
tac
Although I think the Anschutz is technically the better rifle, that's not always the deciding factor. If you're going to drop that much cash into a rifle, it really behooves you to actually get your hands on both and see what feels right to you. Shoot an example of each if possible.
Most shooters will never realize the full accuracy potential of any truly premium rifle, but we can all appreciate a beautiful rifle that just feels right in your hands and, of course, shoots well enough to meet your personal expectations.
I don't often shoot iron sights these days (old eyes), but I had the opportunity a few months ago to try a full-stocked .22LR bolt action with iron sights. Nice little rifle with impeccable handling manners. It makes me wish Anschutz produced a Mannlicher style rimfire rifle for the North American market, to the best of my knowledge they don't. Kind of surprising, actually.
Most shooters will never realize the full accuracy potential of any truly premium rifle, but we can all appreciate a beautiful rifle that just feels right in your hands and, of course, shoots well enough to meet your personal expectations.
I don't often shoot iron sights these days (old eyes), but I had the opportunity a few months ago to try a full-stocked .22LR bolt action with iron sights. Nice little rifle with impeccable handling manners. It makes me wish Anschutz produced a Mannlicher style rimfire rifle for the North American market, to the best of my knowledge they don't. Kind of surprising, actually.
- Location
- West Quebec
Anschutz! and I like his little buddy as wellExactly, here is mine with a buddy.
Anschutz doesn t currently produce a mannlicher stocked 22 but they use to ,the 1418 available with double set triggers or an adjustable single trigger.I have the single trigger version at the bottom
Beautiful rifles, thanks for posting.
After poking around on the web some, it sure surprises me how much the wood varies on the anschutz rifles. Even the same model and vintage varies from very plain to very figured. I sure wouldn't commit to buying one sight unseen.
You can ask the good people at Nordic Marksman to send you photos.
- Location
- West Quebec
They have done that several times for us..as do most shops
Nordic Marksman sent me the pics of all their 1712 in stock last year, both sides and test target. Very classy service.
Clay at Prophet River did the same quite a few years back when I was buying a CZ452 Full Stock. Again, classy service.
You mention prefering the classic stock, I had a 1710 D KL a few years back with a classic Meistergrade stock, very rare indeed. I sold that rifle when I needed funds. I wish I still had a 1710 D KL, great handling rifle.
Clay at Prophet River did the same quite a few years back when I was buying a CZ452 Full Stock. Again, classy service.
You mention prefering the classic stock, I had a 1710 D KL a few years back with a classic Meistergrade stock, very rare indeed. I sold that rifle when I needed funds. I wish I still had a 1710 D KL, great handling rifle.
I have owned multiple Coopers, and multiple Anschutz rifles. I currenty own two 22lr rifles, an Anschutz 1927F, and a one of a kind Cooper. The Cooper was built on my own New Zealand Walnut blank with the Jackson Hunter stock pattern, with an ebony fore end, like the Custom Classic. The Cooper is by far the nicer looking gun, with nicer wood than any factory Anschutz that I have seen, and it handles very well, with sub 1/2" groups at 50 yards. The 1927F is a heavier barreled target gun with the Fortner action, and it averages closer to 1/4" for five shots at 50 yards. If you want a nice looking sporter, with the option of custom options, Cooper may be the better option, if you want the possibly more accurate gun, go with a heavier barreled Anschutz like the 1710HB, or a 1712 like I have also owner previously. If you want the ultimate rim fire sporter, the 1727 with the Fortner action is also an option.
I have spent my fair share of time around both.
My experience is that the Annie's will generally outshoot the Coopers. BUT, once you get off the sandbags the Cooper's superior fit and balance means they hit better for me from field positions.
My pet 22? A Cooper for that reason.
My experience is that the Annie's will generally outshoot the Coopers. BUT, once you get off the sandbags the Cooper's superior fit and balance means they hit better for me from field positions.
My pet 22? A Cooper for that reason.
As an owner of both (although my Cooper Custom Classic is a triple deuce, with the same New Zealand-grown English Walnut that stubblejumper notes), I've researched them pretty carefully. The downside to the Cooper is the Wilson Barrel that is standard on all their models now (you can ask for a better barrel on your build, but the upcharge is substantial, and time to completion will be considerably longer). Wilson (which is owned by the same person, Hugo Vivero, who now owns Cooper) turns out barrels in huge numbers and sells them typically in lots of 100, many to the hordes of AR fans. They are not in the same class as the well-known high-end aftermarket barrels by companies like Lilja, Shilen, Krieger, Benchmark, Broughton, Pac-Nor, et al. When you check the equipment lists that accompany benchrest results, you won't find Wilson barrels anywhere among serious shooters. Anschutz barrels, on the other hand, are generally pretty good, and you do see some stock Anschutz BR setups in the equipment lists.
So, in general, the accuracy advantage goes to Anschutz. This doesn't mean that you won't find a Cooper that shoots right along with an Annie, but this will be the exception. The Cooper 57M rimfire action borrowed many Anschutz M54 features, but, interestingly—and perhaps revealingly—Cooper has proudly stated that no engineers were involved in the action’s development. In my view at least, it isn't quite up to the 54. On the Rimfire Central Forum, the Cooper 57M action has been pretty thoroughly discussed, and one fact that has come out of these evaluations is that it is fairly soft. It is not surface-hardened like the Anschutz 54, which is surface-hardened back where the locking-lug recesses and camming surfaces are.
To many, Cooper is mainly a wood shop. Their stocks are very nice, and the Leonard Brownell Western fleur-de-lis ribboned checkering pattern is lovely to look at. And I think RickF has hit on an important point: fit and handling qualities are important in any rifle that will be taken into the field. Certainly, if the aesthetic aspect of your rifle is an important consideration (as is true for me), the Cooper can hold its own.
On the other hand, it is possible to have both—albeit at a price, of course. LeRoy Barry and his wife, Connie (who does the checkering) at Canyon Creek Custom Gunstocks, stock a ton of Annies with high-grade wood and to-die-for checkering. Here are some pictures of my Canyon Creek 1712 stocked with a fetching piece of Claro Walnut. I felt that this rifle deserved aesthetically-pleasing scope mounts and chose the S&K sculptured mounts.
So, in general, the accuracy advantage goes to Anschutz. This doesn't mean that you won't find a Cooper that shoots right along with an Annie, but this will be the exception. The Cooper 57M rimfire action borrowed many Anschutz M54 features, but, interestingly—and perhaps revealingly—Cooper has proudly stated that no engineers were involved in the action’s development. In my view at least, it isn't quite up to the 54. On the Rimfire Central Forum, the Cooper 57M action has been pretty thoroughly discussed, and one fact that has come out of these evaluations is that it is fairly soft. It is not surface-hardened like the Anschutz 54, which is surface-hardened back where the locking-lug recesses and camming surfaces are.
To many, Cooper is mainly a wood shop. Their stocks are very nice, and the Leonard Brownell Western fleur-de-lis ribboned checkering pattern is lovely to look at. And I think RickF has hit on an important point: fit and handling qualities are important in any rifle that will be taken into the field. Certainly, if the aesthetic aspect of your rifle is an important consideration (as is true for me), the Cooper can hold its own.
On the other hand, it is possible to have both—albeit at a price, of course. LeRoy Barry and his wife, Connie (who does the checkering) at Canyon Creek Custom Gunstocks, stock a ton of Annies with high-grade wood and to-die-for checkering. Here are some pictures of my Canyon Creek 1712 stocked with a fetching piece of Claro Walnut. I felt that this rifle deserved aesthetically-pleasing scope mounts and chose the S&K sculptured mounts.
A Canyon Creek-stocked Anschutz is probably the ultimate option, very nice SP! The best parts of both rifles and none of the compromises.
I was lucky to get one of the unusually accurate Coopers, but if I hadn't been I'd seriously think about going the same way, after buying the lady something nice as pre-damage control
I was lucky to get one of the unusually accurate Coopers, but if I hadn't been I'd seriously think about going the same way, after buying the lady something nice as pre-damage control
2 questionsAs an owner of both (although my Cooper Custom Classic is a triple deuce, with the same New Zealand-grown English Walnut that stubblejumper notes), I've researched them pretty carefully. The downside to the Cooper is the Wilson Barrel that is standard on all their models now (you can ask for a better barrel on your build, but the upcharge is substantial, and time to completion will be considerably longer). Wilson (which is owned by the same person, Hugo Vivero, who now owns Cooper) turns out barrels in huge numbers and sells them typically in lots of 100, many to the hordes of AR fans. They are not in the same class as the well-known high-end aftermarket barrels by companies like Lilja, Shilen, Krieger, Benchmark, Broughton, Pac-Nor, et al. When you check the equipment lists that accompany benchrest results, you won't find Wilson barrels anywhere among serious shooters. Anschutz barrels, on the other hand, are generally pretty good, and you do see some stock Anschutz BR setups in the equipment lists.
So, in general, the accuracy advantage goes to Anschutz. This doesn't mean that you won't find a Cooper that shoots right along with an Annie, but this will be the exception. The Cooper 57M rimfire action borrowed many Anschutz M54 features, but, interestingly—and perhaps revealingly—Cooper has proudly stated that no engineers were involved in the action’s development. In my view at least, it isn't quite up to the 54. On the Rimfire Central Forum, the Cooper 57M action has been pretty thoroughly discussed, and one fact that has come out of these evaluations is that it is fairly soft. It is not surface-hardened like the Anschutz 54, which is surface-hardened back where the locking-lug recesses and camming surfaces are.
To many, Cooper is mainly a wood shop. Their stocks are very nice, and the Leonard Brownell Western fleur-de-lis ribboned checkering pattern is lovely to look at. And I think RickF has hit on an important point: fit and handling qualities are important in any rifle that will be taken into the field. Certainly, if the aesthetic aspect of your rifle is an important consideration (as is true for me), the Cooper can hold its own.
On the other hand, it is possible to have both—albeit at a price, of course. LeRoy Barry and his wife, Connie (who does the checkering) at Canyon Creek Custom Gunstocks, stock a ton of Annies with high-grade wood and to-die-for checkering. Here are some pictures of my Canyon Creek 1712 stocked with a fetching piece of Claro Walnut. I felt that this rifle deserved aesthetically-pleasing scope mounts and chose the S&K sculptured mounts.
Where did you buy your mounts and which Leupold scope is shown. I have a 1712 that needs some glass ( old eyes )
Very cool thread, and some great info. Reading it, I'm mindful of that the fact that unlike almost all the shooters I know well...I'm one of the few rimfire enthusiasts. Last week, I was speaking to a guy who seemed genuinely surprised that 22s OVER $500 even existed. lol Reading threads like this is like a warm hug. 
Anyhow, I can't really comment on the question at hand, the only Cooper I've owned was a 204 Ruger I bought new from PR. Spectacular workmanship, stellar trigger, stunning wood...but a ROYAL pain in the *ss to work-up good hand loads for, and I could never replicate bench results in the field...shooting prone. (like I could with every other rifle I've owned) So a bit of a strange relationship with that rifle. Late in 2017 I bought my first serious Anschutz, a 64 MP R "Tactial Trainer" and while I'm still getting to know it...I guess I'd agree with what I've read here in this thread. The aesthetic edge will likely always go to Cooper, even the smoothness of the action might too. I've seen/held a couple of Cooper rimfires....but have never shot one. BUT, having seen what's possible with my 64, I'm really not sure how the average shooter could really expect much more. I think most people would be thrilled with either, but if accuracy IS the ultimate goal...you can order most Anschutz rifles "off the shelf" vs. waiting who-knows-how-long for a Cooper. Something never felt quite right about laying in dried-up cow-patties...aiming at groundhogs with a Cooper. I mean...it felt just fine, just a bit odd. lol
Anyhow, I can't really comment on the question at hand, the only Cooper I've owned was a 204 Ruger I bought new from PR. Spectacular workmanship, stellar trigger, stunning wood...but a ROYAL pain in the *ss to work-up good hand loads for, and I could never replicate bench results in the field...shooting prone. (like I could with every other rifle I've owned) So a bit of a strange relationship with that rifle. Late in 2017 I bought my first serious Anschutz, a 64 MP R "Tactial Trainer" and while I'm still getting to know it...I guess I'd agree with what I've read here in this thread. The aesthetic edge will likely always go to Cooper, even the smoothness of the action might too. I've seen/held a couple of Cooper rimfires....but have never shot one. BUT, having seen what's possible with my 64, I'm really not sure how the average shooter could really expect much more. I think most people would be thrilled with either, but if accuracy IS the ultimate goal...you can order most Anschutz rifles "off the shelf" vs. waiting who-knows-how-long for a Cooper. Something never felt quite right about laying in dried-up cow-patties...aiming at groundhogs with a Cooper. I mean...it felt just fine, just a bit odd. lol
