Antique 45-90

emmab

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Hello. Here’s something that you don’t see every day. My friend has his grand dads pioneer Winchester 45-90. From what I can see of his pictures it looks like it was made in 1894. He has quite the story to go along with this rifle
Here are some more photos of the 45/90. Also a bit of background.

My Grandfathers parents sailed from England and were pioneers with an early homestead in Mount Leeman on the Fraser. When my Grandfather died in 1986 he was almost 100. He was a tunneler in the first world war planting dynamite under enemy lines. After the war he was the youngest candidate ever to pass the land surveyor certificate. He eventually became the president of the British Columbia Land Surveyors Society, and had an office in New Westminster for many years. He worked often in the Chilcotin Cariboo, had an interest in a copper mine in Tweedsmuir and owned property on Puntzi Lake. He was an acquaintance of Ralph Edwards, of Lonesome Lake who is a storied remote homesteader.
One of my Grandfathers stories was that he rode the last stage coach down the Fraser Canyon, perched outside on the running board step.
So this is his gun, that accompanied him on all his adventures. Perhaps he packed it in case of grizzly attack, I don't know. I know my Dad said that when he fired it, that kick was something he would never forget. The Winchester was mounted on a beam for many years in the house I grew up in. I consider it a true piece of B.C. history. If I pass it on, the piece should really find it's way to an appreciative owner






 
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Great story. Manufacture date is correct. I would believe that it is a Winchester Model 1886....It appears to be missing the saddle ring as the stud appears to be still there. Keep in mind that this rifle was designed intended to use Black Powder cartridges only not smokeless cartridges which came a decade later. Enjoy...
 
Wow, an 86 in saddle ring carbine configuration and in 45-90...I can bet that even some of the most astute collectors on the good side of the border don't have one in their stable. Even tho this gun isn't in "pristine condition" as most of the snobby collectors strive for, I bet this guns value is quite a ways north of a regular 86.
 
Thanks. I agree about his amazing account of his grand dads adventures in the Cariboo and Chilcotin. Being from BC I’ve been to those areas of the province and can well imagine the hardships of travel back then. Great information. No smokeless cartridges in this rifle. So reloaders would be able to duplicate this round with modern cases(if available) and the blackpowder and primers of today? I’ve heard about using 45-70 cases but that was in a smokeless rated 45-90. Funny about his dad mentioning the kick while his grand dad being a dynamite sapper didn’t mind it. Lol
Cheers
 
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Thanks. I agree about his amazing account of his grand dads adventures in the Cariboo and Chilcotin. Being from BC I’ve been to those areas of the province and can well imagine the hardships of travel back then. Great information. No smokeless cartridges in this rifle. So reloaders would be able to duplicate this round with modern cases(if available) and the blackpowder and primers of today? I’ve heard about using 45-70 cases but that was in a smokeless rated 45-90. Funny about his dad mentioning the kick while his grand dad being a dynamite sapper didn’t mind it. Lol
Cheers

Starline makes the brass & rusty wood carries it ... :)
 
Thanks. I agree about his amazing account of his grand dads adventures in the Cariboo and Chilcotin. Being from BC I’ve been to those areas of the province and can well imagine the hardships of travel back then. Great information. No smokeless cartridges in this rifle. So reloaders would be able to duplicate this round with modern cases(if available) and the blackpowder and primers of today? I’ve heard about using 45-70 cases but that was in a smokeless rated 45-90. Funny about his dad mentioning the kick while his grand dad being a dynamite sapper didn’t mind it. Lol
Cheers

It would be very easy to duplicate the original loads. One thing to know is that this rifle will have a relatively slow twist, as the .45-90 winchester cartridge was basically an "express" rifle. Light bullets driven quickly ( at least for black powder ). Standard weight .45-70 bullets will be too long. You will want a 300gr soft cast bullet. If it were my rifle I'd buy a mould from Buffalo Arms to suit the groove diameter. Any large rifle primer and a case full of FFg powder and you'd be pretty close. As mentioned, Starline makes the brass. It'll take any large rifle primer.

Just don't shoot jacketed bullets in it, or if you do, limit the number of them you shoot. Jacketed bullets can be hard on the old barrels.

A nice book to get is "Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West" by Mike Venturino. It also has load data using smokeless (XMP 5744) and will give you a little more background on the rifle and cartridge.

Chris.
 
In his book: "Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West", gun guru Mike Venturino states that the .45-90 was generally considered an "Express"-type cartridge. "Express" cartridges were often loaded with a light bullet loaded to deliver as high velocity as possible, with black powder. Cartridges of this type were quite popular around the time the .45-90 was introduced. Average bullet weight for the cartridge, was around 300 grains. Venturino goes on to mention that the .45-90 cartridge was one of the introductory calibers for the 1886 Winchester rifle.
Venturino also states, quote: "Model 1886 Winchester .45-90's were cut with the rather slow rifling twist rate of one-turn-in-32 inches". Should you wish to reload for this rifle, that needs to be considered when selecting suitable bullets. Mike successfully loaded and shot his sample rifle using Goex Ffg, Goex Cartridge and Pyrodex Select. So, any of these options should work equally well, for you.
You may already be aware of most of this information. But, may be worth mentioning just the same. Hope this helps.

Al
 




Thanks. No I didn’t have a clue about the load data. I have heard about “express” and the idea of shooting a smaller bullet faster and that’s a great explanation! Here’s a couple more pics that I’ve been sent. Being built in 1894 and using an obscure caliber round,does this rifle qualify for antique status? Any idea of a ballpark value? I have no idea what the bore is like. Thanks for all the information. Very informative and much appreciated
Cheers
 
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No it doesn't qualify as an "antique" in the Canadian sense because it is a "repeater" (the tube mag).

The actual "express" bullet weight for the 86's was 330 gr. I have a 1880's vintage Winchester mold that is specifically marked "for 45-90" that throws a 330 gr WW slug. The easily attainable Lee 340 gr mold might work "satisfactorily" in a pinch.
and they do re-coil with authority, I am currently nursing a very bruised shoulder from mine LOL...those damn sharp rifle buttstocks are unforgiving with that cartridge.
 
" Being built in 1894 and using an obscure caliber round,does this rifle qualify for antique status?"

From the Regulations Prescribing Antique Firearms SOR/98-464

"3. A rifle manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging centre-fire cartridges, whether with a smooth or rifled bore, having a bore diameter of 8.3 mm or greater, measured from land to land in the case of a rifled bore, with the exception of a repeating firearm fed by any type of cartridge magazine."

Yours is fed from a magazine so close but no cigar.
 
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