Antique guns before 1898

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Puddles

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Hi I just joined today and am really a newbie at this.

I am looking for the LEGISLATION which I am told states that any gun made before 1898 is considered antique and therefore is not classed as a weapon.

The name of the act, section, etc. in the legislation.

Second part of question is after the gun (shotgun) is verified, how long does that take (verification) and i am told it has to be de-registered (how long does that take) and does one need a FAC, PAO etc after that is done?

How about the same questions for an antique prohibited weapon?

thanks in advance

puddles
 
I can't help you with the actual legislation however no matter the year of the shotgun if it is a standard bore size it is not considered antique UNLESS it is an original muzzleloader. There are caliber restrictions on ALL antique guns. The CFC fact sheets can help you find out what is and isn' considered antique. Good luck.
 
Regulations Prescribing Antique Firearms

SOR/98-464

CRIMINAL CODE

His Excellency the Governor General in Council, on the recommendation of the Minister of Justice, pursuant to the definitions “prescribed”a and “antique firearm”a in subsection 84(1) and to subsection 117.15(1)a of the Criminal Code, hereby makes the annexed Regulations Prescribing Antique Firearms.

a S.C. 1995, c. 39, s. 139

Registration September 16, 1998

REGULATIONS PRESCRIBING ANTIQUE FIREARMS

PRESCRIPTION

1. The firearms listed in the schedule are antique firearms for the purposes of paragraph (b) of the definition “antique firearm” in subsection 84(1) of the Criminal Code.

COMING INTO FORCE

2. These Regulations come into force on December 1, 1998.

SOR/98-472, s. 3.

SCHEDULE

(Section 1)

BLACK POWDER REPRODUCTIONS

1. A reproduction of a flintlock, wheel-lock or matchlock firearm, other than a handgun, manufactured after 1897.

RIFLES

2. A rifle manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges.

3. A rifle manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging centre-fire cartridges, whether with a smooth or rifled bore, having a bore diameter of 8.3 mm or greater, measured from land to land in the case of a rifled bore, with the exception of a repeating firearm fed by any type of cartridge magazine.

SHOTGUNS

4. A shotgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges.

5. A shotgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging centre-fire cartridges, other than 10, 12, 16, 20, 28 or 410 gauge cartridges.

HANDGUNS

6. A handgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges.

7. A handgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging centre-fire cartridges, other than a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 32 Short Colt, 32 Long Colt, 32 Smith and Wesson, 32 Smith and Wesson Long, 32-20 Winchester, 38 Smith and Wesson, 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38-40 Winchester, 44-40 Winchester, or 45 Colt cartridges.

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To Tactical870: thanks I will look on the CFC sheets but I am pretty sure these are antiques because I just learned today they are from the great grandfather and the shotgun is a muzzle loader, possibly percussion.....don't know yet.

Thanks for your quick reply!
 
To BrotherRockeye:

Thanks very much for the legislation part.........didnt think to look in the Criminal Code but I am sure I would have eventually got there.

I have to apologize I have been a bit frazzled yesterday and today and just wanted a straight quick answer to my questions.

The police were here for two hours yesterday wanting to confiscate these antique guns and threatening to call the Guns and Gangs squad to come tear the house apart looking for them.............I guess it was a slow day at the cop shop.........but I was still waiting to see if they would come around today and didnt want to go out in case they came and broke the door down when I wasnt here but they didnt come. Its pretty bad when one fears more what the police threaten a common citizen with than what the criminals might do!

My brother talked to the police today and later told me "they arent sending the SWAT team over" as they know we are trying to rectify the newly inaccurate paperwork problem but someone will come follow up.

But I have spent the last two days calling around finding about the gun safety courses, registered for one, calling about de-certifying the guns, found out they might be antiques and then about the verification of antique guns, chatting to siblings to update, do we know anyone with an FAC? etc....deciding should we get the PAL (?) or should we de-certify or should we verify????. Well its been fun and interesting to say the least!

So thanks again both of you for your replies!

I look forward to reading through this forum and learning a lot more.

Puddles
 
Make sure you notify the police that under the firearms act the exectutor of a will may legally posses firearms without a license for a reasonable period of time until the may be lawfully diposed of. (they are still subject to safe storage laws though) This should buy you enough time to get any licensing out of the way. The prohib, if it is not an antique will be a problem as you cannot lawfully obtain it. You either have to have it deactivated to keep it, sell it or turn it in. Good Luck
 
No firearm that qualifies as an antique is "prohibited".
There are old guns that are classed as prohibited, but if the firearm is a deemed or prescribed antique, it cannot be a prohibited firearm.
 
Puddles, hope you get everything settled just fine. Welcome to the forum. I do not know where you are, but I do know from a relative of mine who is in the RCMP in the Lower Mainland, that a lot of the cops will give you a chance to get everything in order if you are willing to do that. Just do not waste any time. If in doubt, check here and one of us can advise you as to what you need to do.
 
I believe this was posted by Dave Tomlinson of the NFA some years ago. It is the basis for saying that an executor may possess any firearms from the estate without license and for a reasonable time. It does not define what a reasonable time is although the police may tell you that it is 30 days. I believe that is false; it is whatever is reasonable. Also keep in mind that the police knowledge of the law relative to firearms is extremely limited (in my experience) and they may give you a great deal of false advice. I have been told a couple of times for example that the receiver of a gun did not have to be registered. I would suggest joining the NFA for some limited protection against the police.

cheers mooncoon
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THIS IS THE LAW ON INHERITANCE OF FIREARMS:

"BY OPERATION OF LAW" means transfer from deceased to executor.

UNDER BILL C-68:

Firearms Act section [FA s.] 112(1) says, "...every
person...who...possesses [any unrestricted firearm] without being the
holder of a registration certificate [covering it is guilty]..."

BUT -- FA s. 112(2)(b) says, "(2) Subsection (1) DOES NOT APPLY to (b)

A person who comes into possession of [any] firearm BY OPERATION OF
LAW..."

C-68's CC s. 91(1) says, "...every person...who possesses [any] firearm
[is guilty] unless the person is the holder of (a) a licence [covering
it]

...AND (b) a registration certificate [covering it]..."

And CC s. 91(2) says, "...every person...who possesses a PROHIBITED
weapon, a RESTRICTED weapon, a prohibited device, or any prohibited
ammunition [is guilty] unless the person is the holder of a licence
[covering it]..."

BUT -- CC s. 91(4)(b) says, "Subsections (1) and (2) do NOT apply to (b)
a person who comes into possession of [any] firearm BY OPERATION OF
LAW..."

CC s. 92(1) and 92(4)(b) say much the same thing.

The law set forth in C-68 is crystal clear. ANY firearm that passes
into the hands of an executor is LEGAL, and possession by that executor
is LEGAL.

All firearms -- legally OR illegally held by the deceased -- become [if
necessary, and temporarily] LEGAL when they pass into the hands of the
executor at the moment of death.

Police seizures of ANY firearm as a result of the death of its owner are
ILLEGAL.

Special notes for the executor:

If the executor finds that the estate includes a firearm which was
illegally possessed by the deceased, the executor should know that the
firearm does NOT have to be surrendered or even reported to the police.
The executor may sell it to a museum or other person authorized to have
it (e.g., a moving picture props supplier). The executor may take the
firearm to a gunsmith and have it deactivated to non-firearm status, and
then pass it on to the heir, or another, in that status. Or the
executor may explore the possibilities of legalizing its possession by
the heir or some other person.

CC s. 93(1) (possession at a place other than that indicated on the
authorization, licence or registration certificate) does not apply to
the executor, because he is not the "holder of an authorization or
licence" relevant to the firearm. Therefore, the executor may
apparently transport any estate firearm without an Authorization to
Transport.

The executor should note that possession of a "prohibited firearm" by
the executor is authorized by CC s. 91(4)(b) and 92(4)(b), and that
apparently no Authorization to Transport is available to him for
transporting such a firearm -- which may explain why CC s. 93(1) does
not apply to an executor. FA s. 17 to 20 apparently do not apply to an
executor.
 
If you post where you are some kind soul might make a space in their gun safe until you figure out what you're doing. You could then tell the police they have been 'loaned' to a licensed individual for the time being. I've got no room, since I've got three in my safe from a friend in similar circumstances.
 
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