antique modification questions

all the laws dont make sense but never try to understand a liberal you will just lose IQ points lol

anyway the antique list thing is real dumb all pre 1898 guns should be antique

and a RCMP letter i guess thay do know but you can legaly tell them you got rid of it with no need to prove it

:cheers:
 
camerl2009 said:
all the laws dont make sense but never try to understand a liberal you will just lose IQ points lol

anyway the antique list thing is real dumb all pre 1898 guns should be antique

and a RCMP letter i guess thay do know but you can legaly tell them you got rid of it with no need to prove it

:cheers:
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Even better... I say all pre-1945 guns should be reclassified as antiques. After all, how often do you see gangbangers doing a drive-by with a Mauser K98 or a wartime Walther P-38? They're all collector's items these days. Besides, criminals usually have better & newer guns than cops do, so why bother legislating collectibles at all?

:rolleyes:
 
Hole E FV<k boys hitch up yer petticoats and run a screamin!

have we not gone over the whole letter BS enough?

Simple as it gets-once you get a letter for it,they know it's here!

What they do with the information is anyone's guess...likely who's at the rudder decides...

The thread started as a " what can I get away with?"
Not a "what am I gettin into?"

For Gawds sake lets try to keep at least one thread on topic lest we get moved up closer to the reds ;)
 
762mm said:
Even better... I say all pre-1945 guns should be reclassified as antiques. After all, how often do you see gangbangers doing a drive-by with a Mauser K98 or a wartime Walther P-38? They're all collector's items these days. Besides, criminals usually have better & newer guns than cops do, so why bother legislating collectibles at all?

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

lol yea theres alot on the street anything from a .25 acp to a full auto AK or m4 ive even seen RPG's and AT4's its all out there just about anything you can think of

of corse i think we should still be able to own and shoot full auto there fun

now the only canadians i seen shooting full auto are the guy's at marstar god bless them boys atleast thay can have fun :D
 
Let's get back on topic (myself included) here's the OP


antique modification questions

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was there a thread started that talked about modifications to antique status handguns......and if so can someone point me to it.

if not how is it possible that a lot of the handguns I see up for sale as antiques have been modofied as in shaved to fit this round and moon clips for this ammo and barrels and cylinders changed and so on.........

I thought I remembered reading that ypou can not modify.......

anyway just looking for the real goods.

can anyone list the more popular modifications to handguns.........

thanks Sean
 
well i would not modify a webley thats 455 to 45 acp no way.
There hard enough to find in 455 now.
I think buying one already modifyed is fine tho.

Oh and get a RCMP Letter :D

By the Way its right in the RCMP FRT info 45 ACP Webley MKIs and MKIIs are perscribed antiques.
 
tiriaq said:
Let's say that the definitions of deemed antique changes.
The firearm for which you obtained a letter is now restricted or prohibited.
Officer Friendly comes to your door, enquires about it. Oh, gee, I sold it to some guy, I forget who, don't have it any more. Officer Friendly smiles, nods, thanks you, goes on his way.
Or, NWEST comes to your door with a search warrant.
Click to expand...

If thats what they want then so be it, I'll tackle that if and when the day comes.
 
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762mm said:
Even better... I say all pre-1945 guns should be reclassified as antiques. After all, how often do you see gangbangers doing a drive-by with a Mauser K98 or a wartime Walther P-38? They're all collector's items these days. Besides, criminals usually have better & newer guns than cops do, so why bother legislating collectibles at all?

:rolleyes:
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100%agree.
i do not understand a french 8mm revolver from 1897 is antique and 1900 is not even if the cartridge is as hard to get. antique regulation should move with time. 10years passes by and according to law nothing changes...stupid. if a gun in particular caliber is an antique then every gun in the same obsolete caliber should be an antique as well regardless of age. all.32 rf 41rf all .455 all 11 mm all 8mm etc...
we should talk to our CPC representatives to change the law to include these guns...make guns reclasify with time...say 1900 is antique by 2000 and 1910 by 2010...would make sense no? say gun like mauser pistol in original caliber not 9mm, nagant revolvers, all that ammo is obsolete isn't it?
 
antiques

Lots of stuff coming out.....some on topic (thanks) and some not.

question is how does one modify a handgun to antique status....

it has to start as something, and I am assuming that that something has to be registered. Do you modify it and then try and get it de-registered or how does it typically work.

and what are some of the more popular and financially acceptable mods....and what are the better calibers......

where does one get other cylinders that fit old guns.

just to keep it goin...

Sean
 
tigertrout said:
question is how does one modify a handgun to antique status....

it has to start as something, and I am assuming that that something has to be registered. Do you modify it and then try and get it de-registered or how does it typically work.

where does one get other cylinders that fit old guns.
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You start with a gun that is an antique in age but modern in caliber. You then modify it to meet the criteria of antique. For example by bushing the chamber mouths of a 45 colt so that it will not accept factory shells and the chamber is short enough for something a 45 shofield. In that example, the bore remains the same. You can also sleeve an existing barrel to a smaller caliber and bush or make a new cylinder to meet the criteria. The center point is that the frame is made before 1898 and can be demonstrated to be made then. A gun with no maker's name and no proof marks etc more or less cannot be dated.

All of the above is only practical if the gun you are modifying has relatively little collector value either because of brand or condition. Also it is only practical, in my opinion, if you can do the work yourself. As soon as you start having the work done by a machine shop or professional gunsmith, they obviously have to make a living wage and the more challenging the modification, the more expensive the conversion becomes.

cheers mooncoon
 
antiques

Thanks Mooncoon

these bushings your referring to....would they be made in steel or could they be made in other components.

also can they be removable from the cylinder or does it have to be a permanent modification.

and then can you change the registration even though its not a permanent mod.

Sean
 
tigertrout said:
Thanks Mooncoon

these bushings your referring to....would they be made in steel or could they be made in other components.

also can they be removable from the cylinder or does it have to be a permanent modification.
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In effect they are a steel tube that is permanently fastened inside the chamber(s). I would drill/bore them out within say 10 thou of the final inside dimension, fasten them inside the cylinder then finish reaming the new chambers afterwards. That way the old cylinder supports the bushing while you are reaming.

It would have to be a permanent modification. You could not have for example a drop in mini chamber and then reclassify as an antique. In a revolver that is probably not very applicable but for example think of a 12 guage shotgun; you could not drop in a chamber adapter to 14 guage and call it an antique because in 2 minutes you could pop the liner out again. I am not sure just how fussy the registry is about permanency however. For example on many guns it does not take long to unscrew one barrel and screw in another yet that would be considered a permanent alteration I think. On that basis I would think that using a bearing retaining loktite or soft soldering could be considered a permanent alteration although the registry might require an entirely new cylinder. You might however be able to find a cylinder for the gun in a smaller caliber and rechamber that to a larger one. That is a change that could only go back by bushing. I have a 32-20 Colt for example. If (perish the thought) I rechambered the cylinder to 44 russian and replaced or sleeved the barrel to .429 that would be a permanent alteration and the gun if old enough would become antique.

One alteration I would like to try some day is to change a gun over to 22 morris shell which can be made from a shortened hornet shell necked back down to 22 and is a centerfire.

cheers mooncoon
 
antiques

good info Mooncoon

question then...........since the reg's don't mention 22 wrf ...which we all know is a larger casing than regular 22 rim fire, could a guy take a pre 1898 prohib in reg. 22 rim and modify it to 22 wrf and have it become a legal antique.....?

although I don't come across many pre 1898 22 rims, its a thought.

Sean
 
most of the pre-1898 22rimfire hand guns could not handle even a modern 22lr and converting a SAA to 22wrf seems like a waste when 44russian and 455 eley are possible
 
So it seems there's some good info here. I'd like to chime in a bit with a question then, I have a .41 LC, I want to re barrel/re chamber to .38 sp. Good idea? I don't know. They're close so I'd have to re line the barrel and modify the cylinder. I mean there has to be some one stop shop to re line cylinders etc.
 
I think there comes a point of common sense that we should not lose sight of. If you chambered it to 22 wrf or 22 mag even though I don't think either are on the no go list, they are sufficiently close to the basic 22 rimfire that you could almost count on being charged if found out and almost count on the reclassification being refused "on policy". The same goes for 38 special. Unless you have awfully deep pockets for fighting a court battle the verdict of which might ultimately be decided on the basis of emotion of the judge, you would be far wiser to stick to cartridges for which there is a much reduced chance of being challenged on.

There is also the issue of who is going to do the change for you; I would expect many and perhaps most gunsmiths to refuse to make many changes because it is walking too fine a line in legality and they would not want their reputation with the CFC or provincial firearms office to be considered shaky.

Also there is the issue of cost; if you can do the work yourself, that is not an issue but if you are going through a commercial gunsmith, I would suspect that drastic changes and upgrades would be pretty expensive. A lot of the obsolete cartridges that I shoot in my rifles are economical for me only because I can make the loading and forming dies and bullet molds, however imperfect they may be. If I had to go to a custom die maker for the dies and a custom gunsmith for chambering and buy a custom chamber reamer, I either could not or would not afford it. Ultimately for most people, they are probably better off buying a gun which is already classed antique.

cheers mooncoon
 
mooncoon said:
I think there comes a point of common sense that we should not lose sight of. If you chambered it to 22 wrf or 22 mag even though I don't think either are on the no go list, they are sufficiently close to the basic 22 rimfire that you could almost count on being charged if found out and almost count on the reclassification being refused "on policy". The same goes for 38 special. Unless you have awfully deep pockets for fighting a court battle the verdict of which might ultimately be decided on the basis of emotion of the judge, you would be far wiser to stick to cartridges for which there is a much reduced chance of being challenged on.

There is also the issue of who is going to do the change for you; I would expect many and perhaps most gunsmiths to refuse to make many changes because it is walking too fine a line in legality and they would not want their reputation with the CFC or provincial firearms office to be considered shaky.

Also there is the issue of cost; if you can do the work yourself, that is not an issue but if you are going through a commercial gunsmith, I would suspect that drastic changes and upgrades would be pretty expensive. A lot of the obsolete cartridges that I shoot in my rifles are economical for me only because I can make the loading and forming dies and bullet molds, however imperfect they may be. If I had to go to a custom die maker for the dies and a custom gunsmith for chambering and buy a custom chamber reamer, I either could not or would not afford it. Ultimately for most people, they are probably better off buying a gun which is already classed antique.

cheers mooncoon
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We should adopt US rules, why is 44-40, 38-40, 32-20 etc. on the no go list, can't find that ammo anywhere, question the people who made the rules, not the people trying to live by it, thanks.
 
scianna54 said:
We should adopt US rules, why is 44-40, 38-40, 32-20 etc. on the no go list, can't find that ammo anywhere, question the people who made the rules, not the people trying to live by it, thanks.
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.44-40. 38-40, .32-20 ammunition is in current production. The little fishing tackle store in the nearest village has .44-40 in stock. Cowboy action shooting has guaranteed that the ammunition is available. If a shop doesn't have it, they can order it.
The ammunition availability thing is a bit of a red herring. Most any ammunition is available if you look.
It would simplify things so much if the antique regulations were changed so that any pre-99 gun is an antique.
I can't see a legal liability issue for a shop altering a pistol to a different, exempt, caliber. There could be a civil liability issue if laddie hurts himself when the gun fails. Whether the RCMP will accept any and all caliber changes as giving antique status is an open question.
A far as WRF goes, Winchester has made runs of nice fresh ammunition in this caliber. A nice option for use in a WRM.
I'm really not big on permanently altering antiques to comply with current rules. The gun has been around for over 100 years, the rules have been in effect for a very short time in comparison, and are certainly not carved in stone.
 
tiriaq said:
.44-40. 38-40, .32-20 ammunition is in current production. The little fishing tackle store in the nearest village has .44-40 in stock. Cowboy action shooting has guaranteed that the ammunition is available. If a shop doesn't have it, they can order it.
The ammunition availability thing is a bit of a red herring. Most any ammunition is available if you look.
It would simplify things so much if the antique regulations were changed so that any pre-99 gun is an antique.
I can't see a legal liability issue for a shop altering a pistol to a different, exempt, caliber. There could be a civil liability issue if laddie hurts himself when the gun fails. Whether the RCMP will accept any and all caliber changes as giving antique status is an open question.
A far as WRF goes, Winchester has made runs of nice fresh ammunition in this caliber. A nice option for use in a WRM.
I'm really not big on permanently altering antiques to comply with current rules. The gun has been around for over 100 years, the rules have been in effect for a very short time in comparison, and are certainly not carved in stone.
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So are many of the other allowed ammunition.

I can't get the above mentioned ammo anywhere near here btw, so I guess it is limited to the area where you live, it is definitely not very common.

But also Fiocchi .455 Webley is available and this is clearly classified as antique ammunition, right? So where is the line to draw?
 
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