Antique Pistols- Looking for info!

[bgcameron]

Well I think a bug bit me. I found myself with 3 pistols that were too interesting to not pick up. I am very new to antiques, so any info would be appreciated!

First is a Tayler & Mander flintlock:

Next, a pinfire revolver without many markings:

And finally, something very interesting. I was told it was found in a wall inside a scottish castle. It is missing a few parts, unfortunately:

 

[mooncoon]

The flint pistol seems to be british but the proof marks look unusual in the sense they seem to be unusually large. The engraving and name look reasonable for a british gun. I think I can see a belgian proof mark on the cylinder of the pinfire. The all metal rifle definitely is a strange one with the pan apparently screwed on to the barrel and the sear and mainspring on the left side. How big is it and what caliber

cheers mooncoon

 

[bgcameron]

The flint pistol seems to be british but the proof marks look unusual in the sense they seem to be unusually large. The engraving and name look reasonable for a british gun. I think I can see a belgian proof mark on the cylinder of the pinfire. The all metal rifle definitely is a strange one with the pan apparently screwed on to the barrel and the sear and mainspring on the left side. How big is it and what caliber

cheers mooncoon

OAL is about 19" The bore measures out to a little over 14mm, so I'm guessing its a "26 bore"? I referenced the table found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_(bore_diameter)

Are you in on south VI? I could show you these in person.

 

[Shrapnel]

There are many Scottish pistols that were completely made of iron like that. They were the only ones who made complete pistol in that way AFAIK... Unusual pattern! It should be restored!

 

[bgcameron]

I did some digging and came up with "Cloeter family of gunmakers of Grevenbroich and Mannheim". It seems they made numerous pistols like this in the mid to late 17th century. Crazy to think that this thing is atleast 350 years old!

 

[Incurable Collectoer]

Branden,

I do not know much about antique flints just a little out of my era of interest, but the pinfire has a Belgian proof on the cylinder. It looks like a fairly standard second half of the 19th century civilian market pistol. The ejector rod is missing. Since there is nothing to compare the size to I can't venture a guess as to what caliber cartridge it would take.

Branko

 

[bgcameron]

Regarding the crest on the stock of the pocket pistol- I think this is a Robertson family crest.

 

[NorthCoastBigBore]

Darned intriguing finds there! Nothing to add except that old Scottish piece is sure a great piece. When I first saw the picture, it looked like it could have been a matchlock, although the flat piece sure suggests flint.

The family crest information is great.

 

[bgcameron]

A little gentle cleaning goes a long way!

 

[bgcameron]

 

[plinker 777]

That Scot's pistol is quite the find and must be restored imho. In Feudal Scotland, only individuals of great importance could/would have been able to afford to have pistols made. You may very well have one of a King's (Chieftain's) sidearms...that was no doubt used in anger.
Where was it found in Scotland?

 

[tiriaq]

It may have been found in Scotland, but it is not a Scottish pistol. More likely German. Of course, how it came to be in Scotland could be quite a story...

 

[bgcameron]

I will certainly try to find out more on the story about where this was found.

 

[plinker 777]

16th-17th Century Scottish Arms were more often than not German made. This is old, far older than rams head butt pistols. I'm gambling early 17th century...1640's? I don't think its an Indian knock off .

 

[tiriaq]

German pistols of this type date from the third quarter of the 17th century.
Who knows - perhaps these German pistols were the inspiration for the all steel Scottish pistols. Similar design, but using a separate detachable flintlock.

bgcameron is very fortunate to have discovered an extremely rare and valuable pistol.

 

[bgcameron]

If only it could talk! Note how the patina has formed around the cocked position of the main spring. Imagine how many centuries this pistol was left cocked. The spring is nice and tight.

 

[bgcameron]

Regarding the Tayler & Mander, I emailed the Robertson Clan society in Scotland and asked about the crest. Here is their response:

Sir, Many thanks for the photos. Unfortunately the engraved crest is basically a blank. Used by all in heraldry to depict somebody Regal. If it where Robertson it would have our Motto attached " Virtutis Gloria Merces" .
It looks like a nice quality item though. Dating from around 1780.

I also got some info from a friend. Tayler and Mander was a Birmingham gunmaker from 1780-1790