I have a 12 gauge double barrel Damascus shotgun made by A Clayton of Southampton as engraved on top. It is beautifully engraved. I would like to find the value and am looking for any advise as to how to find it. I am in Waterloo Ontario ca. Thanks!
antique shotgun value?
- Thread starter daveki
- Start date
Start by posting some good photos.
You don't mention if the gun is breech or muzzleloading.
It is unusual for a British shotgun not to be engraved. Even the least expensive guns had some embellishment. Quality and extent of engraving makes a real difference.
In all likelihood the gun was Birmingham made and sold by Clayton.
You don't mention if the gun is breech or muzzleloading.
It is unusual for a British shotgun not to be engraved. Even the least expensive guns had some embellishment. Quality and extent of engraving makes a real difference.
In all likelihood the gun was Birmingham made and sold by Clayton.
A Clayton antique shotgun
I have this gun and am trying to figure out it's value and find a new home for it. It is in good condition and tight with beautiful engraving and wood. But, the firing pins are missing, however I think it would not be to difficult for someone with a small lathe to make a pair as they sit in straight bores under threaded caps.
Any help on setting a value for this
I have this gun and am trying to figure out it's value and find a new home for it. It is in good condition and tight with beautiful engraving and wood. But, the firing pins are missing, however I think it would not be to difficult for someone with a small lathe to make a pair as they sit in straight bores under threaded caps.
Any help on setting a value for this
Attachments
This is a basic (nice) generic gun of it’s period. Birmingham black powder proofed 1875-1887. I can only find three Claytons, all pre 1850, none from Southampton. This would be a typical Birmingham gun, made in the trade to order for hundreds of small merchants all over Britain, complete with the business name to suit. The business of A Clayton may have been a small one person ironmonger (hardware) store who would order this gun from a wholesale catalogue, personalized with the A Clayton name, possibly for stock or perhaps a customers order. No signs of screw buggering or damage, just wear and dirt, this gun may have never been apart. It appears to use the Henry Jones screw grip action, a very strong fastening that wears well. Have the gun checked by a knowledgable gunsmith, if the barrels in particular are smooth, free of pitting, not honed too thin and structurally sound this could be a fun black powder shooter, well worth having new firing pins made and fitted.
Value? Too many variables to be definitive, as is the collector value is on the low end for a gun of this type but……………
IF the barrels are sound and IF the locks are in good smooth crisp working order (unlikely, they’ll likely need a clean and lube at minimum) and IF there are no stock cracks or old repairs this gun has fine potential. As is without firing pins this should be about $200-300 as a worthy project. Professionally restored to a high standard could double or triple this figure. This is a best case scenario, many factors can drag this down to a $100 decoration.
Value? Too many variables to be definitive, as is the collector value is on the low end for a gun of this type but……………
IF the barrels are sound and IF the locks are in good smooth crisp working order (unlikely, they’ll likely need a clean and lube at minimum) and IF there are no stock cracks or old repairs this gun has fine potential. As is without firing pins this should be about $200-300 as a worthy project. Professionally restored to a high standard could double or triple this figure. This is a best case scenario, many factors can drag this down to a $100 decoration.
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What he said.
The barrels are marked “A Clayton”, which I read as Alfred Clayton. Alfred Clayton established his business in High Street, Lymington, Hampshire in 1843. He moved to Southampton in 1855, where he purchased the business of William Burnett. Clayton was an inventor as well, taking out patents for punt guns. He maintained his business in Southampton until 1869, but it is possible the firm continued under the name J Clayton (perhaps his son, I don't have this information). Some claimed Clayton sold his business to John Patstone of Birmingham around 1867 and moved it to 25 High Street in Southampton. Patstone may have continued using the Clayton name, something not unheard of in the trade. In any case Ashcroft is correct (no surprise), it dates from after 1875. The lack of a name on the lockplates does suggest a generic Birmingham make (such as by Patstone or someone else), and retailed from the Southampton address (by J. Clayton or Patstone). It does look like a typical Jones double-grip action. I particularly like the shaping behind the fences, this was not the lowest grade offerring, which is what we normally see. Cleaned up it could be an attractive gun. I too would suggest a value of 300-400 in its present state, if the barrels are good and free of dents and rust.
As with most old guns, a session with a toothbrush and warm soapy water is a good start, nothing abrasive. Cleaned and waxed, the value to a buyer might rise a bit. Though basic, the engraving is well done. Most importantly, the screws appear untouched, and they should be left that way. Incorrect tools can quickly bring it down to a $100 gun.
I quite like it. I would have liked it a whole lot more had it been a Alfred Clayton pin-fire, but we can’t have everything.
As with most old guns, a session with a toothbrush and warm soapy water is a good start, nothing abrasive. Cleaned and waxed, the value to a buyer might rise a bit. Though basic, the engraving is well done. Most importantly, the screws appear untouched, and they should be left that way. Incorrect tools can quickly bring it down to a $100 gun.
I quite like it. I would have liked it a whole lot more had it been a Alfred Clayton pin-fire, but we can’t have everything.
Licensed to kill
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- Peace Country Alberta
Perhaps but if people don't respond to these types of questions when they come up creating a record of that info, Google will have nothing to find. WAY more often than not when I search something on Google, the best sources of info that come up are forum threads.
gunsaholic
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Well the OP joined the forum in 2013 and has 3 posts and 2 of them are on the same gun. He has been on the forum several times since posting on the gun and can't be bothered to chime back in on his own threads to the advice or questions he has been asked. Just a another waste of time thread.
the spank
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Which is usually the case when someone very knowledgeable tells them EXACTLY what they need to know about the gun and it's true value but it's not what they want to hear. It does not meet the "it must be worth a fortune because it's old" and the belief in their minds it must be "rare" then they do not respond because they do not want to hear the truth so they waste more time and space on a forum looking for someone else to say "hey bud, that gun is worth $10,000" not the couple hundred dollars it actually is!
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He’s not the only one.
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...auge-Laminated-barrels-GOLD-Inlaid-UNRESTORED
It started at $3000. So at least he’s responding a bit to the market.
Problem ??? I took the gun to 3 collectors...they've never seen one gold inlaid #1 and my price is my price...
Find me another exact gun..in this cond unrestored..perfect bores..perfect patterns on barrels. And tight as new
The gun was hardly ever fired and rare to the point yes...its belgian..bit also an oddity and rare to that effect.
Want more pics id gladly post but I'm at my space limit... No worst than a 5800$
Parker on here...in the exchange because it has a letter... As ive said..don't like it..don't read it
Obviously ive got a great trader rating and anyone whos bought or traded with me
Was happy... I don't bash anyone's prices...quite frankly people can keep their opinions
Off the forums.. And msg privately... As one member put it" its not just another belgian clunker
With gold inlaid barrels...someone in those days paid top $ for it...to build a gun of its quality
And materials now would be quite high...
The collectors said could be a 2/3000 $ gun...so...i started at a price...and ill drop to a point...
If it sells..it sells..if not...ill keep it gladly...i guarantee you wont find another 1 identical. Gold costs $ to engrave
And inlay...so honestly...if you don't know its exact value...why ridicule it...
Find me another exact gun..in this cond unrestored..perfect bores..perfect patterns on barrels. And tight as new
The gun was hardly ever fired and rare to the point yes...its belgian..bit also an oddity and rare to that effect.
Want more pics id gladly post but I'm at my space limit... No worst than a 5800$
Parker on here...in the exchange because it has a letter... As ive said..don't like it..don't read it
Obviously ive got a great trader rating and anyone whos bought or traded with me
Was happy... I don't bash anyone's prices...quite frankly people can keep their opinions
Off the forums.. And msg privately... As one member put it" its not just another belgian clunker
With gold inlaid barrels...someone in those days paid top $ for it...to build a gun of its quality
And materials now would be quite high...
The collectors said could be a 2/3000 $ gun...so...i started at a price...and ill drop to a point...
If it sells..it sells..if not...ill keep it gladly...i guarantee you wont find another 1 identical. Gold costs $ to engrave
And inlay...so honestly...if you don't know its exact value...why ridicule it...
HR, perhaps I shouldn’t have ridiculed the ad.
I don’t dispute that the gun may be in the pristine condition you describe. And I have no idea who the “collectors” are that you showed it to. But I do know that Neumann Bros made hardware store guns. It’s not high quality workmanship. Whether or not there is gold inlay. Gold inlays don’t drive the vintage collector market. Neumann Bros is not Francotte. Or Jules Bury. Or any number of well known high quality Belgian makers. And the vintage SxS market is rather soft right now, especially for 12 gauge. Even from good makers who are well known. They are on at firesale prices in the UK and Europe because of ammo mandates and people are dumping them. And that is impacting prices here in NA. To get $3K for a 12 ga hammer gun requires a rather special gun these days.
Perhaps I pegged you wrong. If so, I apologize unreservedly. But the price I first saw in your ad seemed so outlandish to what the market is doing, that it seemed to be an example of what another poster was mentioning…..the relatively common experience of seeing someone who doesn’t want the truth, just their perceptions confirmed.
I don’t dispute that the gun may be in the pristine condition you describe. And I have no idea who the “collectors” are that you showed it to. But I do know that Neumann Bros made hardware store guns. It’s not high quality workmanship. Whether or not there is gold inlay. Gold inlays don’t drive the vintage collector market. Neumann Bros is not Francotte. Or Jules Bury. Or any number of well known high quality Belgian makers. And the vintage SxS market is rather soft right now, especially for 12 gauge. Even from good makers who are well known. They are on at firesale prices in the UK and Europe because of ammo mandates and people are dumping them. And that is impacting prices here in NA. To get $3K for a 12 ga hammer gun requires a rather special gun these days.
Perhaps I pegged you wrong. If so, I apologize unreservedly. But the price I first saw in your ad seemed so outlandish to what the market is doing, that it seemed to be an example of what another poster was mentioning…..the relatively common experience of seeing someone who doesn’t want the truth, just their perceptions confirmed.
Ive been in the sxs market for YRS... I own several... This is a hardware store brand gun
And i garuntee...you will not find an 1880s built gun in this Unrestored literally
Unfired cond...the bores have never been honed .polished...the patterns
And Browning are 100% original...the small dings it does have in wood...and i mean small
Are from handling in and out of the cabinet... There is ZERO play with action opened
No wobbly hinge...no shims...no re working....its very " in a class all its own really"
I also have a sxs 16 here made by " manufacture Liegoise d arme a feu st anonnyme liege "the twist barrels patterns
Would blow your mind...and wood is 100% orig finish...again zero play...basically another survivor or time capsule...the bores
Have very very fine frosting but shine....again...hard to find a belgian workhorse in " not destroyed cond "...maybe not as valuable
As a parker or lc smith or ...however...a rarity...and will command premiums....for light on subject...milsurps like mosin nagants were 50$
1 time...and ammo 2.50 a pkg for surplus.... Vs now...700/1000$ depending on yr made and plant was made at...and ammo is near
Unobtanium...soo what do we see...is a HUGE shift in values and availability of anything...primers use to be 2$/pkg...now 25$ for rifle primers...even if you can find them...
And i garuntee...you will not find an 1880s built gun in this Unrestored literally
Unfired cond...the bores have never been honed .polished...the patterns
And Browning are 100% original...the small dings it does have in wood...and i mean small
Are from handling in and out of the cabinet... There is ZERO play with action opened
No wobbly hinge...no shims...no re working....its very " in a class all its own really"
I also have a sxs 16 here made by " manufacture Liegoise d arme a feu st anonnyme liege "the twist barrels patterns
Would blow your mind...and wood is 100% orig finish...again zero play...basically another survivor or time capsule...the bores
Have very very fine frosting but shine....again...hard to find a belgian workhorse in " not destroyed cond "...maybe not as valuable
As a parker or lc smith or ...however...a rarity...and will command premiums....for light on subject...milsurps like mosin nagants were 50$
1 time...and ammo 2.50 a pkg for surplus.... Vs now...700/1000$ depending on yr made and plant was made at...and ammo is near
Unobtanium...soo what do we see...is a HUGE shift in values and availability of anything...primers use to be 2$/pkg...now 25$ for rifle primers...even if you can find them...
Yes the market overseas was hit hard with the lead ban...
But go on intersurplus website and see prices of their old sxs guns
They are importing here at a fraction of their retail .. Got make $ to keep the
Lights on...those old english...belgian and german guns...and swedish
Guns...are highly prized here and reload components and tools are avail.
I spoke to a friend in UK...he said my Army & Navy i own now.
Damascus sidleock upland gun in beautiful cond...would be worthless
There since the ban...maybe 500$..... Intersurplus has the same gun
Right now..for over 3200$... And one lesser quality for 1800$...so there must
Be a market...its that people arent spending...and they are keeping stuff they have.
However... I did post in my add id accept trades...maybe someone picked
Up a nice rifle for 500 or 600 but valued at 1800/2000...it happens, and they offer it
As a trade...so...i take the gun...and he capitalizes on his investment
And i feel a fair trades been done...everyone wins.... Or add small cash diff.
That i have here with gold inlays on a hardware gun...someone ordered this gun this way..
I assure you gold inlay wasn't a 50 cent option on a 15$ gun in 1880s..
Its just an oddity and as ive said...if it dont sell...ill keep loading ammo for it
And use it.
Im an honest person and i know its not a parker A1 special.... But...find me another 1 like it.
But go on intersurplus website and see prices of their old sxs guns
They are importing here at a fraction of their retail .. Got make $ to keep the
Lights on...those old english...belgian and german guns...and swedish
Guns...are highly prized here and reload components and tools are avail.
I spoke to a friend in UK...he said my Army & Navy i own now.
Damascus sidleock upland gun in beautiful cond...would be worthless
There since the ban...maybe 500$..... Intersurplus has the same gun
Right now..for over 3200$... And one lesser quality for 1800$...so there must
Be a market...its that people arent spending...and they are keeping stuff they have.
However... I did post in my add id accept trades...maybe someone picked
Up a nice rifle for 500 or 600 but valued at 1800/2000...it happens, and they offer it
As a trade...so...i take the gun...and he capitalizes on his investment
And i feel a fair trades been done...everyone wins.... Or add small cash diff.
That i have here with gold inlays on a hardware gun...someone ordered this gun this way..
I assure you gold inlay wasn't a 50 cent option on a 15$ gun in 1880s..
Its just an oddity and as ive said...if it dont sell...ill keep loading ammo for it
And use it.
Im an honest person and i know its not a parker A1 special.... But...find me another 1 like it.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- New Scotland
The drinking water in Cape Breton is probably half his issue.
