OK, Im not finding what i want in this legeslation. I know the provisions that deal with antique handguns. I have some old cap and ball revolvers but im looking at getting into antique cartridge revolvers. Now i know that i have to have a PAL to purchase ammunition but i dont to buy empty brass, black powder and lead. So the question is...Do i have to have a pal to load my own or possess ammunition for antique handguns?
Antiques and Ammunition?
- Thread starter sportee
- Start date
I think i should clarify...Its not that i want to know what i can "get away with" i just would like to know what i am allowed by law. Im new to the antique handgun scene and want to make sure im not going about anything illegally. As far as the PAL and POL stuff goes...i used to have all of my paperwork in order (about 10 yrs ago when i did some competition shooting with the local gun club) but i never kept anything up and dont even know where my old records are...it seems like too much hassle to go through it all again. I really like the old stuff better anyways.
Cheers
Cheers
Here's the relevant areas.
Section 25
A person may transfer ammunition that is not prohibited ammunition to an individual only if the individual
(a) until January 1, 2001, holds a licence authorizing him or her to possess firearms or a prescribed document; or
(b) after January 1, 2001, holds a licence authorizing him or her to possess firearms.
Unauthorized possession of ammunition
Section 108.
Every business commits an offence that possesses ammunition, unless the business holds a licence under which it may possess ammunition.
**Note that it says business.**
So what are we left with? I can't transfer (give/loan/sell) you ammunition if you don't have a PAL because it puts ME at risk of prosecution. Which means you can't buy it. There is nothing in the firearms act that I can find that says you need a license to possess ammunition as an individual. Even in the Section 4 (Purpose) it says the act is to
"to provide, ... for the issuance of
(i) licences, registration certificates and authorizations under which persons may possess firearms in circumstances that would otherwise constitute an offence under subsection 91(1), 92(1), 93(1) or 95(1) of the Criminal Code,
Note that there's no reference to ammunition in the above, Subsection II deals with prohibited ammunition (whatever that would consist of)...
I'm not a lawyer, but according to this I'd say you're good to have it, but it's illegal for someone to sell it to you. Roll your own, and if your firearm is a prescribed antique and you SHOULD be immune to prosecution. Not to say a cop won't charge you anyway depending on your area. Probably easiest to get your PAL just in case.
Here's the Act so you can do your own research. http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowFullDoc/cs/f-11.6///en
Section 25
A person may transfer ammunition that is not prohibited ammunition to an individual only if the individual
(a) until January 1, 2001, holds a licence authorizing him or her to possess firearms or a prescribed document; or
(b) after January 1, 2001, holds a licence authorizing him or her to possess firearms.
Unauthorized possession of ammunition
Section 108.
Every business commits an offence that possesses ammunition, unless the business holds a licence under which it may possess ammunition.
**Note that it says business.**
So what are we left with? I can't transfer (give/loan/sell) you ammunition if you don't have a PAL because it puts ME at risk of prosecution. Which means you can't buy it. There is nothing in the firearms act that I can find that says you need a license to possess ammunition as an individual. Even in the Section 4 (Purpose) it says the act is to
"to provide, ... for the issuance of
(i) licences, registration certificates and authorizations under which persons may possess firearms in circumstances that would otherwise constitute an offence under subsection 91(1), 92(1), 93(1) or 95(1) of the Criminal Code,
Note that there's no reference to ammunition in the above, Subsection II deals with prohibited ammunition (whatever that would consist of)...
I'm not a lawyer, but according to this I'd say you're good to have it, but it's illegal for someone to sell it to you. Roll your own, and if your firearm is a prescribed antique and you SHOULD be immune to prosecution. Not to say a cop won't charge you anyway depending on your area. Probably easiest to get your PAL just in case.
Here's the Act so you can do your own research. http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowFullDoc/cs/f-11.6///en
Yeah the world will be a safer place if everyone who casts odd size bullets and crams them in hand turned brass with black powder has a crimminal records check and pays 100 bucks. How about flinters do you need a PAL to pour powder in them ? or do you just need a liscence to ram a roundball on top of it?
It seems ridiculous to have to debate weather you need a PAL to handload obsolete ammunition.
It seems ridiculous to have to debate weather you need a PAL to handload obsolete ammunition.
The way I read the information in my previous post, is you're good to go handloading your own ammo without a PAL/POL. You can't buy ammo without a PAL, but there's nothing in the F.A. that says anything about unlicensed possession for individuals. So in my opinion, have at her.
However, depending on where the original poster is located, that might be a risky proposition. I wouldn't expect the cop that pulls you over on the way to the range in the GTA to have the same interpretation of the rules. In that case I'd say the PAL/POL is cheap insurance against ending up in court because of his handloads.
However, depending on where the original poster is located, that might be a risky proposition. I wouldn't expect the cop that pulls you over on the way to the range in the GTA to have the same interpretation of the rules. In that case I'd say the PAL/POL is cheap insurance against ending up in court because of his handloads.
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Just talked to the CFC regarding this, (15 mins) the gal I talked was very friendly, she couldn't answer the question nor anyone in that dept.
She has deffered it to their legal dept. and they will contact me in ~ 7days.
Cheers nessy.
She has deffered it to their legal dept. and they will contact me in ~ 7days.
Cheers nessy.
Good thing we have these laws, imagine what would happen with the gangbangers if they weren't there. - dan
dan belisle said:
Ya really.and like i said you can BUY AMMO with a POL Damit
I can buy Primers and Gun powder and bullets and cases.
without any Licence.
So i can have Ammo with my Unlicenced Antique Revolvers as ive been told its Legal for me to shoot them without a POL or PAL so how could i shoot these antiques without Ammo
To buy NEW loaded ammo thes only time i can see a person haveing to need a POL or PAL.
- Location
- Manitoulin Island
The LUFA types are using old rimfire rounds and reloading them so they can thumb their noses at the Govt. while hunting with prescribed antiques. More power to em.
I am sure I posted a photo of some rimfires that I reload for. Technique depends on the caliber and on the dimensions of the firing pin. A few you can get lucky with and use a .22 blank or a hilti shell centered as the primer while others have to have the blank primer mounted off center so that the firing pin or blade can reach it and in those cases the primer has to be oriented to the firing pin position.
cheers mooncoon
cheers mooncoon
brianp said:
Good summary, you've got it right.
As for reloading, I was fighting new regs as many other until they died and got withdrawn. The new regs could make it illegal to reload or buy components unless you have PAL (one of the big issues).
