antiques rechambered to 17hm2

KotKotofeich

KotKotofeich

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I've seen a few revolvers done this way, were any derringers done like this? Anyone know of a gunsmith that can take an antique Remington derringer in 41rf and convert to 17hm2? Even in the US?
 
Hi,
Does converting an antique pre1898 to a new caliber still classify it as an antique in Canada?
I would say that going from .32rf to .22lr would be an easier and safer way to go, as long as you use subsonic/target rounds?
Please advise...
Regards Dag
 
Why do you say it is not safe? Do you consider the revolvers that were converted (the two I've seen from .32rf to 17hm2) unsafe as well? Is it the revolver cylinder gap making i safer in your opinion? Going from 41 would leave a lot more material in place...
 
Changing 32 rf to 17 MK2 is a challenging task - but it does remain an antique. I bought about twenty or so and many of them were unsuitable for the change - one was so badly timed, that it indexed half a hole out of time - it appeared unfired, but junk. Twelve of them made it through to perfect operation. These were all revolvers - which I sold. This was an ultimate challenge to myself - every one had it's own special issues - and although I succeeded, I will not do any more, nor recommend anyone else try.

When I check velocities, I found that they had about the same energy as a .22 short out of a rifle - which is great for squirrels.

It would be relatively simple to do a derringer, but I'm not sure what a guy would do about the extractor though - that would take some thought.


I'll edit this to say that the top hinge Remingtons will be far stronger than necessary - but there may be other issues.
 
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KotKotofeich said:
Why do you say it is not safe? Do you consider the revolvers that were converted (the two I've seen from .32rf to 17hm2) unsafe as well? Is it the revolver cylinder gap making i safer in your opinion? Going from 41 would leave a lot more material in place...
Click to expand...

I don't consider the Remington derringers a particularly strong action and it does not seem unusual to see them with the hinge at the top broken. In answer to dag333; converting to 22 rimfire would make the gun a "modern gun" either restricted or prohib depending on barrel length. 22 rimfire is specifically named as a no go cartridge for retaining antique status. Also as applies to the 17 rimfires, while it might meet the current law as qualifying for antique status, I would not be surprised if you faced legal action were the gun to ever come to official attention. It would not surprise me if the RCMP came out with a new policy dealing with antiques rechambered to relatively available modern ammunition. They have already come up with a policy that rebarreling and rechambering a pre 1898 handgun to an antique caliber (ie not of the list of disqualifying cartridges) does not qualify the gun as being an antique if it started out on the no go list. The only advantage of the 41 derringer is that it does not come to the official attention of the RCMP since it is not registered

cheers mooncoon
 
Thank you for the good advice and info...so only re-chamber from antique caliber to another antique caliber to be safe.
I agree that going from .41rf to a smaller round provides more metal and strength....but any reduction sleeves made of modern and strong metals should be able to cope even with a reduction from .32rf to a smaller round as well.

As an aside, lots of people use the .22 acorn blanks as primers in modified .32rf cases...i assume this would work equally well on modified .41rf cases and others as well?
Regards Dag
 
dag333 said:
Thank you for the good advice and info...so only re-chamber from antique caliber to another antique caliber to be safe.
I agree that going from .41rf to a smaller round provides more metal and strength....but any reduction sleeves made of modern and strong metals should be able to cope even with a reduction from .32rf to a smaller round as well.

As an aside, lots of people use the .22 acorn blanks as primers in modified .32rf cases...i assume this would work equally well on modified .41rf cases and others as well?
Regards Dag
Click to expand...

I think that a lot of people feel that the biggest risk is of the barrel bursting but I think more commonly we need to think in terms of how strong is the action rather than how strong is the barrel. The 41 rimfire is a short low pressure round and probably does not put a lot of strain on the action.

I have used 22 blanks in some shells and 27 cal Hilti shells in the larger calibers. I did try firing a primed shell in a Remington derringer once and could not get it to fire and you might need to make a stronger hammer spring to get ignition.

cheers mooncoon
 
dag333 said:
Thank you for the good advice and info...so only re-chamber from antique caliber to another antique caliber to be safe.
I agree that going from .41rf to a smaller round provides more metal and strength....but any reduction sleeves made of modern and strong metals should be able to cope even with a reduction from .32rf to a smaller round as well.

As an aside, lots of people use the .22 acorn blanks as primers in modified .32rf cases...i assume this would work equally well on modified .41rf cases and others as well?
Regards Dag
Click to expand...

Good luck making the remy derringer alternating fireing pin work on both chambers on a smaller dia rf cartridge.
that's a major thing to alter and get working right.
I think you need to see how one works before you even think about altering it.
 
KotKotofeich said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-owZZ3quUs

Can liners be installed off center bore? I think I remember there was an antique c96 in .22 and the liner was installed off center bore so that the original firing pin would work... If not it will need a new firing pin and a new wider extractor...
Click to expand...

Anything can be done if you pour enough money into it, but really whats the point ?
I have a really nice two line barrel address derringer in 41 Rf and I just bought a reloading kit from HC collections in France so I can shoot it as is any time I want and the 41 RF is a decent cartridge.
The kits work great and are cheeper than what your talking about doing.
+ my gun stays a original antique.
 
Not all Remington derringers are "antique" and the only way this can be determined is by the barrel address... If not antique then they are prohibs.... don't ask me how I found this out. Lining the barrel would give some additional strength, but the problem is the frame and lockup.... they were made from pretty soft cast iron. The .41 Rimfire Short was a pretty anemic round, and it was said that a fairly thick wallet could stop the bullet across the poker table.... wouldn't want to try it myself, but it does give some idea of the potency of the round. Considering the pressures generated by the 17 cal rimfires, you would be overstressing the original materials beyond the safety margin.
 
So, I appreciate all of the answers, but seriously, I did not ask whether I want to do this or not. I asked if anyone knew a gunsmith that could undertake this project.

Those that know me and read my posts and threads would know that I go to great lengths to preserve any and all guns - unless they are beyond saving. This derringer is indeed beyond saving in it's original form - the hinge is fine, the mechanism is fine but the barrel is a sewer pipe (as seems to be the case for many of these). Shooting the original caliber is just not an option any more. If there is a chance to resuscitate it, I'll take it.

It is a good point that the weak link, so to speak, may not be the barrel but the hinge. But is it? Does 17hm2 have that much more energy than 41rf out of a short barrel?

Assume money is not an issue for this project because it has sentimental value ;)
 
Don't revolvers have problems with bolt thrust (not sure if that is the right term) when using bottle neck casings? The casing stretches a bit and doesn't shrink all the way back when fired and then tends to bind up the rotation of the cylinder.
 
Remac said:
Not all Remington derringers are "antique" and the only way this can be determined is by the barrel address... If not antique then they are prohibs.... don't ask me how I found this out. Lining the barrel would give some additional strength, but the problem is the frame and lockup.... they were made from pretty soft cast iron. The .41 Rimfire Short was a pretty anemic round, and it was said that a fairly thick wallet could stop the bullet across the poker table.... wouldn't want to try it myself, but it does give some idea of the potency of the round. Considering the pressures generated by the 17 cal rimfires, you would be overstressing the original materials beyond the safety margin.
Click to expand...
.17 HM2 is the same as .22lr... whilst I don't think it's a great idea I don't think it would be unsafe.

HeadDamage said:
Don't revolvers have problems with bolt thrust (not sure if that is the right term) when using bottle neck casings? The casing stretches a bit and doesn't shrink all the way back when fired and then tends to bind up the rotation of the cylinder.
Click to expand...

Yes, revolvers do.
The revolvers in question... I owned two of them. Both had this issue. Not huge but they weren't perfect. Interestingly I've seen both for sale on the EE (one twice) and the issue seems to have gone away.. AND THEY DOUBLED IN PRICE!!! :rolleyes:
 
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