Any .223 really stand up to the AR-15?
- Thread starter CanadianBaconPancakes
- Start date
Rather difficult to answer. You refer to "feels as good" In the manner of weight, balance, and how it shoulders I think the XCR in the light keymod would be close for now. In the future the SLR would be close as you can get to an AR15 but as for accuracy and what is out there now the ACR and SL8 would be good. I mention those since you make reference to a bolt gun and that makes me think accuracy is important to you.
As far as what is better than an AR15. I don't believe there really is anything better.
Moe
As far as what is better than an AR15. I don't believe there really is anything better.
Moe
The Wolverine 180C intrigues me, due to the fact is supposedly accepts standard AR barrels. In theory, this means you should be able to swap in a 20" heavy bbl and make a very accurate varminter. But until they're actually shipped and in the wild, and a few people have had a chance to report back on a few things about them, I'm not terribly inclined to start digging another pit for my pennies (already have a few of those ongoing excavations).
The ergonomics and other factors look pretty decent on the 180C. I'm mostly curious about real world reliability. I think Wolverine has done their due diligence there, but nothing compares to having a fairly large sample size in the hands of a variety of people.
This is totally up to you. I can tell you that a year after getting a Tavor I sold my AR because I hadn't shot it since, and I can tell you that years later I still don't miss it, but some people just don't like the bullpups. All you can do is try to get your grubby mitts on some rifles and try them out.
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
Personally I think the ACR is the better conventional layout, but if bullpups dont bother you, my vote would be the DT MDR. Unfortunately the MDR is not yet available in Canada, so the best bullpup is the x95 in my opinion.
Well, since "Better" is a subjective term you're not going to find an answer to that here.
The AR15, in my opinion, is perceived to be "better" than other firearms simply because of it's ease of user customization and adaptability. It is the LEGO of the firearms world. Does that mean it's "better" than everything else? Not really.
I find my XCR's to be ergonomically superior than the AR15. Does that mean it's better? Not really.
I find my Tavor to be better balanced, more compact and thus has better maneuverability characteristics. Does that mean it's better? Not really.
I find my SG540 fits me really well and thus it handles and shoots even better for me. It is dead nuts reliable, shoots extremely smooth and needs nothing extra than how it came to suit my needs. Does that mean it's better? Not really.
I could keep going but I think you get my point.
Your search for something "better" will never end because "better" is subjective of too many variables. Variables that only YOU can determine which ones are "better" for you.
There are many good firearm platforms out there. Which one is actually the "Better" one still eludes me.
Good luck on your quest
Have u tried the KM M17s yet ? Just curious on ur thoughts about those
I find it "better" to grab my mini 14 and be able to legally go for a walk in the woods. I also like it "better" when I can fire off a few boxes in my back yard and not have to pack it up, stick it in my trunk, drive to the range, wait my turn to shoot it, pack it back up, put it in the trunk and drive home. Better? Heck yes!
To answer your question. No.
As a qualifier to my answer, the most common criticism of the AR is its legal status and biggest selling feature of its competitors... their legal status.
If it wasn’t for the legal status advantage AR’s would outnumber their collective competition 8-10 to 1.
So if you find yourself liking it better than the rest, your not alone it’s a commonly reached conclusion.
As a qualifier to my answer, the most common criticism of the AR is its legal status and biggest selling feature of its competitors... their legal status.
If it wasn’t for the legal status advantage AR’s would outnumber their collective competition 8-10 to 1.
So if you find yourself liking it better than the rest, your not alone it’s a commonly reached conclusion.
Depends on what you use it for.
For the obviously huge number of cases in Canada where law abiding civvies use guns to defend themselves and to fight bad guys, not, probably doesn’t matter.
Which gun makes you look and feel cooler while wearing it around your neck?
For the obviously huge number of cases in Canada where law abiding civvies use guns to defend themselves and to fight bad guys, not, probably doesn’t matter.
Which gun makes you look and feel cooler while wearing it around your neck?
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
They felt well built when I played with them at the IRG booth at the Calgary show, but from a features & ergonomics stand point I felt they were lacking. That said they are based on a very dated design. The fact that they neglected to mill mlok into the forend shows you how willing they are to move the design forward.
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
While it is a status inbalence right now, it will be a price inbalence once you remove the status divider. If they were all equally priced I would still go for an ACR or MDR over the AR
For personal reasons whatever they may be some people will have a preference that just happens to be less mainstream which is why I qualified what I said by stating “8-10 to 1”. Someone has to be the 10% to 20% might as well be you right.
However AR getting a heavy and health deregulation would actually drop prices because it would be wide open competition rather than wide open competition between those willing to put up the overhead dealing with red tape.
You're going to need to be more specific on what you consider better. I like the ACR more than an AR but I still love my AR's. They all have strengths and weaknesses and without more information no one here can tell you what you will like better.
The WK180C is piston drive, no tubes so you can't just buy a different length gas system.
That being said RWA has said that they will be building parts for their 180 including different length op rods.
Since a good quality AR barrel capable of actually giving consistent 1 MOA or better accuracy is going to run you $400+ you can always have a barrel built for it. I've had barrels custom made for my ACR and it cost me about $500. Made from a McGowan blank it has been giving pretty consistent .9 MOA groups with handloads.
This to me is the best thing about any rifle using an AR barrel extension, even if you can't find a good replacement any competent smith should be able to build you exactly what you're looking for.
I wouldn't buy a WK180-C if you're looking for a rifle to be a precision semi. The CNC receivers may help in the accuracy potential department but I doubt these are going to have the tight tolerances needed to be precision rifles, plus if they are built to tight tolerances the reliability will suffer a bit, it's always a trade off. They will be a great entry level non restricted semi auto and a great rifle for plinking and general bashing around in the field but sub MOA is unlikely even with a quality barrel.
Hard to really say for sure though until they are in customers hands and we actually get to see how well they're built. I've only handled a couple things from Kodiak and the machining was adequate but nothing to brag about. This is how they keep costs down I think and how they can offer an entire rifle for the same cost as the Maccabee SLR receiver set.
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